[lloydah]

Rather like Henryp1 above I would travel in F if at all possible simply for the convenience of having direct aisle access and only in J if travelling with someone I knew – in which case I’d choose a two abreast window pair. In fact, thinking about it the main differences, apart from things in the terminal, between first and business are aisle access and size of cabin on most airlines. The extra personal space can mean a big difference to the “joy” of the flight especially a daytime one.

[Inquisitive]

Easy jet and Ryanair has about 30% of their seat with direct aisle access! (if we consider BA club world 50% seat with direct aisle access is credible with present competition).
I am not sure why some people goes out of the way to provide some silly argument to support BA. BA is good in many aspects and surely they are not in many areas from business travelers angle.
I noted another forum trail that discussed how the F lounge is crowded. The point is BA pack a obscene number of seats in F (in today’s term) and hence the number of total passengers (paid or otherwise) is high. These are facts, no need to get worked up.

[Binman62]

Martynsinclair… Was your post tongue in cheek?

Can understand the thinking, but people are fickle and can desert a carrier like BA far quicker than they could refit or introduce a new product.

My two main routes are now served by oneworld carriers who offer direct aisle access with one doing so on BA code share! Why would I not choose those?

Think crew and BA staff often believe their own marketing…. A dangerous position to take.

Edited 0925 15/5/13 for spelling

[EU_Flyer]

BA do have direct aisle acess available. It’s called First.

The “New First” seat is really just a slightly upgraded version of AA and Cathay’s J class product with better food and nicer blankets and pillows.

If BA introduced a new CW resembling CX or AA they’d be forced to cut or redesign F given.

[PhileasFogg]

I admire VK´s passion defending BA (I once was a BA fan too).

Focusing on BA´s business class product I admit lounges in LHR are top notch.
But I wonder who is really BA trying to compete against with its CW on board product? BA sure beats Alitaila, AF or KLM…but are these BA´s competitive benchmarks?

Assuming that seat, IFE and catering are the key items on the air (reasonable assumption to me) I see no rational to put BA ahead any of the following:

– Swiss
– Qatar 777 or 787
– Lufthansa new fleet (flat bed)
– Singapore
– LAN
– American new flat bed 777-3
– Korean
– EVA Premium Laurel
– Cathay
– Delta (!)
– South African
– Emirates on A380
– …and the list goes on.

I admit some of the mentioned airlines (eg American) don´t offer a consistent product across the fleet and I didn´t include Virgin because I never tried them.

But I am curious to know which business class products does BA consider as competitive set and what strenghts do they believe they have against them.

Maybe VK has a reasonable answer…(or maybe he is just going to accuse me of being anti Walsh bla bla bla)

[rcfyelee98]

Someone posed the question “why people don’t vote with their feet” – I thought I would share my perspective.

I fly BA 90% of the time for the following reason – Heathrow is my local airport; BA is the only airline that flies to all my most frequented destinations non-stop (because it hubs out of Heathrow!);I can accumulate into one programme a significant amount of FFP to use for my leisure travel for my family and I; i don’t travel enough to have top tier status with all the better airlines so I need to concentrate my custom to enjoy CCR access and to live under the delusion that I am an important person (on a facetious note, people who really matter tend not to have FFP status and/or don’t need to earn status as they have their own private jets. The rest of us are just hired help)

If CX or SQ hubbed out of Heathrow, I would change in an instant as their business product is so so so much better. But as they won’t/can’t, I will continue to support loyally but reluctantly BA even though I can exercise my own free will to fly with a smorgasbord of airlines and enjoy better service/product etc.

[SimonS1]

PhileasFogg – 14/05/2013 23:37 GMT
Maybe VK has a reasonable answer…(or maybe he is just going to accuse me of being anti Walsh bla bla bla)

I hope you are not a member of BASSA.

[EU_Flyer]

rcfyelee98- 15/05/2013 06:58 GMT

Well said!

[SCF]

With the greatest of respect, when one sleeps, the footstool is ALWAYS down! So, this is an obstruction. Why does VK mention ‘day flights’ when clearly our complaint about not having direct access relates ONLY to the time when one uses the ‘bed’; i.e. NIGHT flights???

[SCF]

I disagree with you Martyn because I often choose upstairs. And even there, except for 62A or 62K, all the other rows (A and K seats) have restricted access. I.e. that pax has to climb over the adjacent pax to get out.

[Binman62]

If CX or SQ hubbed out of Heathrow, I would change in an instant as their business product is so so so much better…

Absolutely agree and there’s the rub.

BA have dominance at a slot constrained airport in one of the most affluent areas of Europe, have an enviable route network, good lounges and an embedded FFP; they do not have to work hard to secure customers.

A new airport, unencumbered by slot restrictions and operating 24/7, would all others to offer services they cannot offer now.

BA is undoubtedly a choice for many but that does mean that they are or would continue to be their first choice.

[MartynSinclair]

“If BA introduced a new CW resembling CX or AA they’d be forced to cut or redesign F given.”

Which Alexupgrade77 has been my thoughts for a long long time. I just dont see the value of First considering most people access F in ways other than a fully paid ticket (and before those of you who do pay start shouting – I know you pay with your oown money!!).

BA would be better ditching F in favour of an upgraded Business Class – then everyone should have aisle access.

[Senator]

Given BA’s market position in the UK (read: London) it would be interesting to see how typical loads in Club World and First let’s say on the flights to New York or Hong Kong are split along the lines of discounted, negotiated corporate fares and published fares used by SME and individuals. Yes, for those of us paying from our own SME or as consumers, we can vote with our feet. It is harder when it is a procurement manager to make that decision as their metrics are very different.

[Londonian]

Of course I agree that direct aisle access is the ideal and it certainly influences me when making bookings, but I prefer to step over the footstool arrangement on BA Club World, rather than be in the window seat on say the Qantas or MAS A380.

[Binman62]

Londonian……But then on QF and MAS you get such better food and infinitley better service. My last QF flight on upper deck A380 was a joy compared to my last Club world experience, and I speak as someone with some degree of antipathy toward QF generally.

Horses for courses……

As far a sditching F…well if they offered a product like CX then no they would not have to ditch it at all, but I see the point and offering a superb business product consistently would infitintely better than the F and J they have now.

Of course all of this is pure supposition as they have no intention of doing anything as evidenced by the layout of the A380.

[Author]

Posts