[BeckyBoop]

Branson has bet BA £1m that the Virgin Atlantic brand will still be around in five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20665041

[transtraxman]

It is not a case of 49% or 51%.
The real question is reciprocity. If European airlines cannot buy more than 25% of a US airline then the same should be applied, without qualms, in the other direction.
Did not the US authorities quash any idea of Virgin Group taking anything more than 25% of Virgin America when it was set up? Did they not refuse Virgin group to have ANY management role in Virgin America? Did they not limit Virgin Group to having only an investment stake in the airline without any say in its running – hardly a voice on the board?
“Like for like” should be the motive. Is it not time that the government should put its foot down and say enough is enough? If the government really believes in the industrial regeneration of Great Britain then the sale and purchase of existing businesses are part and parcel of the same.
Some are already talking about the disappearance of the Virgin Atlantic brand (so as to morph it into Delta – how disgusting!!!).
We need a government with BALLS which does not sell us down the line for the benefit of a few banker friends. Look after UK PLC.

[canucklad]

Transtraxman…….in parliamentary lingo “Here Here”

I’m on my soapbox again, but………

It’s important that competition is encouraged at LHR, and this deal can only lead to less choice…

And I’m surprised that SQ and its Star partners would allow Skyteam to strengthen at the expense of an already weakened star alliance at LHR….Short term gain and long term pain !!

And , as I’ve already mentioned, why would a UK business benefit from being allowed to be taken over by an American airline……An industry that only survives because of Chapter 11 legislation and Federal protectionism

[christopheL]

VS is mainly a transatlantic airline which means that only a US airline may have a real interest into them. Not SQ. UA could have been but the sale of BD by LH seems to mean that LHR is not a real target for Star.
DL and AF/KLM have a very strong relationship over the atlantic and it really make sense for them to buy VS so that DL/VS can become a real alternative to BA/AA between UK and USA

[canucklad]

Sorry to disagree with you chrisopel…..

I just don’t see how it is the best interest of the AF/KL group (even considering their close relationship with DL) to strengthen the LHR-N.A. market…

By doing so they risk, regional connection traffic via AMS and CDG on their own revenue streams !!

An independant VS within star is my favoured option…

You also need to consider that Skyteam would become the VERY dominant alliance fro Nortern Europr, risking proper competition and choice

Skyteam hubs @ AMS-CDG-LHR
Star @ FRA
Oneworld @ LHR

[Jimmywright]

If you are talking hubs it doesn’t really matter if they are northern Europe.

But if you want to talk northern then you should really add the Scandinavian hub of Copenhagen to the Star list, as well as Helsinki and Berlin to OneWorld.

With greater Europe also add in Madrid for OneWorld and thinking even futher afield Istanbul for Star.

So I make:

Skyteam hubs AMS, CDG, LHR (Assuming the Virgin become Sky)

Star: FRA, IST and CPH

OneWorld: LHR, MAD and TXL (and maybe even DUS).

So looks pretty even actually, though yes MAD is a hub more for South America and IST more for Asian flights.

[AMcWhirter]

For Star you might also add: MUC, BRU, ZRH and VIE.

Granted two of these are not mega hubs but they provide good coverage of areas which are not covered by the others.

[scott66]

We’ve missed another potential suitor for Virgin. How about Ryanair?

Sounds scary, Ryanair are known to be cash rich, there has been speculation about an order forth coming for another tranch of aircraft.
The boss has expressed a previous interest in running transatlantic ops.

Here it is in one neat bundle for him, a viable quantity of LHR slots, aircraft, crew and routes. It’s not something I’d look forward to, but it’s a spine chilling thought.

[Bucksnet]

The service on VS is pretty close to Ryanair already going by some of the reviews.

[Edski777]

Today a Dutch newspaper reported that AF/KL is seriously interested in the 51% stake left for a European party (as EU law dictates).

Interesting also is to read in this thread how some of us global travellers still have a very nationalistic approach as to who owns VS. Remember, it’s a somewhat regulated free market and shares can be sold to the highest bidder. This means that VS may be owned by investors from the continent. Still better than some US or Chinese groups.
Also for VS personnel it could be a good thing, the Anglo-Saxon business model is not particularly favorable for employees, it is more suited for the investors and speculators.

In my view satisfied personnel with decent contracts will ultimately translate into better motivated staff on board and better service.
Personally I have had enough of very young, underpaid or otherwise unmotivated staff that doesn’t seem to know what service is. For example experience a lot of US in flight services nowadays.

For me, competition is good. Let’s get some real competition going and let them compete on the hard and the soft product. If this means that some of the smaller players are gobbled up by the large companies: let it be.

But please don’t let this trend go on the downward slope and have Ryanair take over VS.

[Vertrek]

Canucklad,

“I just don’t see how it is the best interest of the AF/KL group (even considering their close relationship with DL) to strengthen the LHR-N.A. market…”

AF-KLM will most probably buy some of Branson’s share in the near future and if VS were to join the AF-KLM-AZ-DL North America joint venture, they all will be sharing revenues, so it’s actually good for AF-KLM.

And Jimmy,

For SkyTeam you may add: FCO and MXP by Alitalia and MAD by AirEuropa.

[christopheL]

Canucklad
I’m sure you’re right but I can’t believe AF will lose many revenue streams because of VS.
VS is a pure british airline when AF is a never fly with them airline for many british business travellers. Just have a look to the user reviews…
The UK/USA market is a very specific one because it is huge and it is mainly anglo american. For that reason I think a DL/VS alliance will make sense because it will give skyteam the opportunity to gain market shares against oneworld without loosing anything.

[canucklad]

ChristophL…..Of course you’re right on the AF point, I was thinking more of KLM, who have successfully managed to build a loyal UK base in the regions!!

Jimmy…you’re right about the other hubs of course, my point is those Hubs that actually pose a threat on the lucrative North Atlantic routes…

And in this case….. It’s the ones I’ve mentioned….and I’m thinking of the connectivity between N.A & points eastwards.

If EK continues its expansion in N.A., then DXB could be added to the list!!

And on a separate point……This behaviour of sharing revenue between carriers, suspiciously feels like a closed shop cartel!!

[Henkel.Trocken]

It seems that Walsh is now showing his true colours on the subject of a VS take over:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20676667

If ever there was a true response of the school yard bully, Walsh has made it.

I can’t believe either that he doesn’t have £1M given his bonuses over recent years unless he’s a very profligate spender.

[canucklad]

Henkel….

Rather than publicity stunts and ” handbags at dawn” stuff…I would like to see the bearded wonder, focus his and his managements talents at ensuring the domestic flights work !!!

That is going to annoy the groin out of WW more than a silly bet!

[Author]

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