[capetonianm]

I am not being unsympathetic, but there are no ‘basic EU rules’ pertaining to this. I assume you’re referring to EU261 but that only applies to circumstances deemed to be within the airlines’ control.

I don’t see how anyone could reasonably argue that cancelling flights under current circumstances would give rise to compensation.

[biguli76]

In fact my first request was to change destionation. Brazil, f.i.?
Nobody want to host people from North Italy (Hotels, Airbnb, etc.)..
Should I to go to sleep in a Metro Station?

[EasternPedlar]

Companies differ in their business practices in such situations. I just cancelled a trip to Thailand. Thai Airways charged the full cancellation fee. The resort in Hua Hin, my final destination, allowed me to cancel and rebook within 6 months, which I thought was a superb gesture as a lot was involved. Accor properties where I was going to stay on my way out and way back waived cancellation penalties and offered a full refund. I’m going to make sure that I remember who was helpful, and who was not, and direct my future business accordingly.

Incidentally, on the morning of my cancelled Thai flight I was down with some fever, a sore throat and a cold! Thankfully it was just a simple flu and I’ve recovered since, but I wonder how Thai would have reacted if I had turned up at the airport with these symptoms – or, more likely, called them and said that I was unwell and did they still want me to fly!

I did not have travel insurance for this trip, and am not sure if that would have helped in this circumstance. @TomOtley, if you are planning to write an article on travel insurance, may I suggest starting a thread in the forum so that some of us can share our experiences? I did a lot of research, including reading the detailed policy wording, for a trip to Machu Picchu a couple of years ago and the discoveries were quite shocking.

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biguli76

[Tom Otley]

Hello,

That’s the purpose of this thread – it got a little side-tracked when talking about pre-existing conditions, although that’s understandable.

The piece is here, and I am updating it daily as we get more information.

Coronavirus: will insurance cover your cancelled trip?

Thank you
Tom

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Isabel, PhilipHart

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=992486][/postquote]

My insurance company here in Asia AXA sent out a text today saying that as a loyal customer they will cover all complications that arise due to the virus, and if you are a health worker or frontline staff they will do even more to help you…. great service and they have retained my business for definite!

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AnthonyDunn

[Tom Otley]

That is a very positive, proactive and responsible move.

I’m updating the piece as more news comes along…

thank you, Tom

[LuganoPirate]

I’ve just received a mail from Swiss and Lufthansa allowing customers to rebook any journey worldwide, once, without penalty. There are a few conditions such as the same fare being available and it has to be the same route, airline etc.

[LuganoPirate]

The father of one of the students at our University is a doctor who is specialising in the COVID-19 disease. He sent this email to the University President to forward to all parents, staff and students. To preserve his daughter’s privacy I have removed his name but I did Google him and he is who he say’s he is. I hope it’s useful and gives some perspective.

Dear parents,

I am an infectious disease specialist with firsthand experience treating patients with COVID-19.  More importantly, I am the father of a (name of uni) sophomore.  Given my unique situation, I thought I would share my perspective and the advice that I am providing my daughter, my patients and my community.

Perspective is important but hard to achieve given nonstop media attention generated by this new virus. I wish Influenza would get this much attention.  Per the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, about 3 million Italians have been sickened with Influenza and approximately 300 have died from Influenza-related illness this season alone.  Hundreds of thousands are being infected with Influenza every week in Italy.  This happens every year.  Compare that to the 270 confirmed COVID-19 cases in Italy and one in Ticino.   In the United States, we are caring for 53 COVID-19 patients (none of whom are particularly ill) while at the same time 30 million have been infected with Influenza resulting in 280,000 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths since October 2019.  All this from a vaccine preventable disease.   Influenza should be the headline

COVID-19 has captured our attention because of its rapid spread and novel nature.  We are continuing to learn more about this virus and are developing a vaccine and treatment options.  Countries around the world are cooperating to reduce its spread and impact.  For me, two of the most reassuring aspects of COVID-19 are that > 80% of infections are very mild and are similar to a common cold, and this infection tends to spare the young.  The more severe infections tend to occur in individuals over the age of 60.

We are also lucky that the same interventions which prevent the spread of Influenza also prevent the spread of COVID-19.  80% of these infections can be prevented by keeping your hands clean and away from your face.

Here is my advice to my daughter:

•       Get your annual Influenza Vaccine–she did.

•       It is never too late to get vaccinated for Influenza, so if you or your loved ones have not been vaccinated, do it today.

•       Clean your hands frequently with soap and water or alcohol-based hand rub.

•       Avoid touching your face since viruses often enter through your eyes, nose and mouth.

•       Avoid large groups of people when viruses such Influenza or COVID-19 are spreading in the community.

•       Eat well and get lots of sleep.

•       Stay in your dorm or at home if you are sick (let the school nurse know if you become ill).

•       And, of course, stay put, study hard, and get those grades up!

xx xxx, MD, FIDSA

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TiredOldHack2, MarcusGB, K1ngston

[MarcusGB]

We shall have to rely on The Airlines and hotels, in terms of them wanting to hold our loyalty.
Negotiate ourselves for leisure or Business trips, or hpe the Airlines cancel flights, only then will they have to pay out, change. or offer a credits.
When travel is severaly restricted, the the Government can stat “Do not go to…” but until this is reached, insurers will not be paying out.

Better to renegotiate a refund, or a re-booking in the times ahead with the Airlines and Hotels.
Now is NOT the time to have an agent or “Middleman” man, as they will hold onto your money”.

We stand a better chance of refunds or re-bookings, if we booked Direct our Airlines and hotels to achieve this.

[IanFromHKG]

[postquote quote=992073][/postquote]

Just to add a bit of boring legalese to this aspect of the thread. As a particular exception to the general rule that a duty of good faith is NOT implied into English law contracts (and I am talking only about English law contracts here – most civil law systems, and some common law systems (eg New York law) do imply a duty of good faith), insurance contracts are considered to be contacts uberrimae fidei – of the utmost good faith. That means that when applying for an insurance policy, the would-be insured must act with the utmost good faith, which (among other things) implies a duty of full disclosure of any matters which might be relevant to the insurer’s decision to issue the policy.

Having said that, it applies primarily to facts which would otherwise not be known to the insurer, AND there is no problem with entering into an insurance policy after buying a ticket. We have done this ourselves where we foresaw a risk that was minimal when we bought the tickets but had increased over time – since the matter was in the public domain we did not make specific disclosure since it must have been known to the insurer. The risk eventuated, we cancelled our trip, claimed, and got a full pay-out.

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AnthonyDunn, Tom Otley, TupeloKid, PhilipHart

[TominScotland]

I wondered if anyone has any updated information/ experience in relation to Tom’s original post? I was due to attend an event in Florida in May and booked very early in order to get a good price flight for myself (attending the event) and my wife (enjoying the sun). The event has now been cancelled. Sorted our hotels no problem which just leaves the flights and ESTAs. I have an annual travel policy so would hope to get some joy from that but probably need to wait before doing anything until BA have decided on the flight cancellation/ re-booking policy for May – does that sound right?

[MarcusGB]

I agree with TAP comment, having had no options but to take a big hit to a return, one being in a PE version fare, which is fully non refundable, and a Business Z class back, which is refundable minus Euros 75! It is only a LHR-LIS.

To change the booking, was coming up with a fare double what i had paid already!
Clearly they have no intention of refunding or flexibility to change without penalty. They will not even refund their fuel supplements, only airport taxes and charges etc.
They made if very difficult to have to complete IBAN codes, and repeated personal details already in the ticket, not refunding this to the original credit card.
I will not book or travel with TAP in future.

I am sure few of us pay for a full flexible fare in whichever class we travel on all the Airlines.
Even on a discounted Business fare. We should at least be offered a credit from an Airline, where they don’t have to pay back revenue, but equally you retain the value of the fare you have paid.
Same with Malaysian Airlines for an intra Asia flights, they only offer taxes back even on a Z Class Business class ticket. Despite their location being far more central out in SEAsia, they also are grabbing onto the money and offering nothing in return.
As a result, Malaysian are another Airline i shall not fly with in the future

I called Air France & KLM, on the Platinum line as the normal call centres were unable to take the volume.
I needed to cancel a flight to The Far East April / May, changing not being an option as you must re-book to travel before the end of May. It is a Once Only offer to re-book, and i doubt if this current (now declared a World Pandemic by the WHO) situation is going to improve by then.

I chose to take a Travel credit for future travel for the full value of my ticket.
I feel this is a fair balance, and i value this show of support and loyalty, that goes both ways. KLM have always been very fair, reasonable, and outstanding in their customer relations.

When all of this comes to a close, Companies that have treated us in this way will lose out long term, as i shall equally “reflect” their attitude to me, and not support them with my Bookings in the future. I have no doubt that some Airlines will not survive, and they will need all the loyalty back to build up. A rather stupid attitude from them, not seeing this will be what enables them to recover and survive, or not!

[Tom Otley]

[postquote quote=993183][/postquote]

It does, but when an event has been cancelled, but the flights are still scheduled, the insurance policies then seem to regard it as a case of ‘disinclination to travel’.

In those cases, the policy won’t pay. You are then left hoping that the airline cancels the flight, perhaps because of lack of demand.

Meanwhile, if you have a policy, go abroad, and then are quarantined, most policies won’t pay for the extra costs involved.

If you become sick with coronavirus, however, they will.

So you’re in an odd position where if the person in the next door room becomes ill, and the hotel is quarantined, you will be out of pocket, but if you are the one who catches it, you will be able to claim.

[TominScotland]

Slightly off topic but related to insurance.

A relative arrived in the French Alps to be faced with a total shutdown of the resort and facilities there. They are now waiting to be flown home by their tour operator.

He purchased insurance and, on reading the small print, finds that the policy does not cover “claims arising from prohibitive regulations by the government of any country” and this is being used by the insurance company to deny his claim.

In the extreme circumstances, is this reasonable and normal? Will he have more joy via his credit card company?

Any informed advice would be welcomed.

[IanFromHKG]

Junior Offspring was due to fly home tonight on Finnair. Who have cancelled all flights to Asia with less than 24 hours’ notice. And when we finally got through to a customer service operator (two of us trying to call and also access the online chat constantly for three hours) she said that the earliest she could rebook was the 1st of April. If we wanted to reroute, we had to do it ourselves. No compensation. No care and assistance. I quoted EU261 but she didn’t care. Apparently it wasn’t Finnair’s fault, it was because of the new HK quarantine restrictions, even though they haven’t come into force yet, and don’t stop people entering Hong Kong – so of course it is just commercial expedience that is driving Finnair, and I am going to claim. Let’s see what happens!

Grrrrrr…..

[Author]

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