[ASK1945]

Martyn – nevertheless, the government has ruled out the passport (of proof) today. It was suggested that the traveller get a letter from their GP. Another money spinner for doctors, as a result.

[GivingupBA]

ASK1945 said, “What does the Forum think?” — about the letter in the TIMES about fairness. The letter writer said “…..is it fair that they will regain freedoms that younger people will continue to live without?”

I will counter, would it be fair if older vaccinated people could not travel because they were vaccinated because they were ruled to be more vulnerable by the UK government?

Also, letter writer, I’m sorry to tell you that life is inherently unfair. To give bad examples, is it fair that everyone in the world does not have access to education and NHS healthcare in the UK? If it’s unfair, should not everyone in the world be freely allowed into the UK for education and for NHS health care? Is it not unfair that everyone in the UK does not have access to all the wealth and privileges of rich people? I think not, in both cases.

1 user thanked author for this post.

cwoodward

[Montysaurus]

The UK government has ruled out vaccination passports because it would be unfair to some as “vaccination is not mandatory and that’s not how we do things in this country”. Having a passport is not mandatory either but you can’t leave the UK without one. Is that unfair?

[Montysaurus]

My other point is that old folk like me have less time left to enjoy life whereas 24 year olds have 2/3rds+ of their lives ahead of them.

[canucklad]

[quote quote=1092245]Martyn – nevertheless, the government has ruled out the passport (of proof) today. It was suggested that the traveller get a letter from their GP. Another money spinner for doctors, as a result.[/quote]

[quote quote=1092276]The UK government has ruled out vaccination passports because it would be unfair to some as “vaccination is not mandatory and that’s not how we do things in this country”. Having a passport is not mandatory either but you can’t leave the UK without one. Is that unfair?[/quote]

I can only add 2 thoughts to this …..

Firstly our politicians wouldn’t make great chess players, and secondly , they mustn’t have heard of the phrase that involves 2 birds and one stone.
I honestly don’t see the issue , but I do see many future advantages of giving your passport number over as proof of identity when you go for a vaccine .
And I’m struggling to see a downside to doing so ?

If your passport details can hold so much info about you already, that we freely share with other governments when they scan it on arrival , surely our vaccination status would be welcomed by most of us?

[TonyR]

There are lots of vaccination proofs such as Yellow Fever you can need for travel in some parts of the world so why not do the same. And that is not a passport, which would introduce all sorts of challenges with the infrastructure to make a secure change. You just take a letter from your GP which Minister for Vaccine Deployment, Nadhim Zahawi, has said is the way to do it if you need to travel. I would emphasise the “need to travel” bit though as we don’t want to overburden already stretched GPs with unnecessary demands.

[canucklad]

[quote quote=1092296]You just take a letter from your GP which Minister for Vaccine Deployment, Nadhim Zahawi, has said is the way to do it if you need to travel.[/quote]

You make a valid point of over burdening an already NHS , which is why I don’t see the any negatives to me having added into my passport chip, that I’ve been vaccinated through official, regulated and looking to the future internationally recognised documentation.

Not sure a piece of NHS headed paper from my local medical centre is going to cut the ice with an officious immigration officer at Chep Lap Kok
Multiply that globally and it becomes unworkable — Using trusted digital data IMO seems the logical course of action.

In business its called future proofing, then again maybe the governments plan is to create another taxation stream to recoup already considerable losses.
But I’d argue its more critical to ease travel as quick as possible to kick start our spending power

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=1092296]………….. we don’t want to overburden already stretched GPs with unnecessary demands.[/quote]

TonyR:yes, this is an alternative. However, don’t worry about over-stretching GPs. Vaccinations are already noted in the medical record and a confirmatory letter can be issued by a practice administrator. Practices will charge for this, no doubt, to cover any cost.

[ASK1945]

Canucklad: our contributions crossed.

My passport is not due to be replaced for another 7 years. How is your suggestion going to work out for me? And, anyway, it has always been the case that (like ‘flu) a re-vaccination will be needed regularly, more or less confirmed today. Will I have to renew my passort annually also?

I don’t think the passport chip is a practical way forward.

[TonyR]

@canucklad. Not sure a piece of NHS headed paper from my local medical centre is going to cut the ice with an officious immigration officer at Chep Lap Kok
Multiply that globally and it becomes unworkable — Using trusted digital data IMO seems the logical course of action.

That bit of paper, including recently my PCR test paperwork, has served me well at numerous immigrations over many years. Many places still don’t have the infrastructure to use digital data on a passport but bureaucracy loves paper. A time like this is not the time to challenge the system by rolling out new systems – remember the challenges and efforts that were needed for electronic track and trace for example. If it ain’t broke…..

@ASK1945 – Practice Administrators are also stretched organising all the vaccination appointments as well as what is left of normal caseload administration.

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=1092306]@ASK1945 – Practice Administrators are also stretched organising all the vaccination appointments as well as what is left of normal caseload administration.[/quote]

I am sorry but I don’t accept this. If a charge is implemented then additional staff can be engaged. Yes, it would be a quick fix, but is entirely practicable so could be implemented quickly.

[rferguson]

It will be foreign countries that will decide on what is acceptable and what is not in terms of vaccination proof.

If the rest of the world adopts a unified approach to some kind of passport and the UK decides not to as it is deemed ‘discriminatory’ I have doubts that a letter from your GP will cut it. Entry approval systems for so many countries are now electronic and i’d imagine a unified vaccine passport will be verified online. To think that entry points and airline counters will debate over the contents of a GP’s letter while there is a (near) universal passport scheme, I can’t see it.

Another issue is vaccine protocol. The UK has decided it will issue the two doses twelve weeks apart which is in contravention of the manufacturers own maximum gap between dosing (which is eight weeks). Singapore has already said it may not consider someone that has had a 12wk gap in injections as actually ‘vaccinated’ as the dosing is not following the manufacturers guidelines.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Jacob, cwoodward, MartynSinclair

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=1092317]If the rest of the world adopts a unified approach to some kind of passport and the UK decides not to as it is deemed ‘discriminatory’ I have doubts that a letter from your GP will cut it.[/quote]

I have no issue with this statement, as I believe you are correct long-term. But is this likely in the near future – say this year? Who knows?

I think this debate is at cross purposes. Short term something simple may need to be introduced to get the world moving. Most of the world will not have its population even 50% vaccinated before 2022. Once this has been achieved there will be more pressure to have a uniform system worldwide.

[canucklad]

[quote quote=1092318]I think this debate is at cross purposes. Short term something simple may need to be introduced to get the world movin[/quote]

Exactly, but if you have the technology , surely you can do both, add a long term solution in now, whilst having a process for the interim ?

[PeterCoultas]

If there are compulsory vaccines to allow flying who cares…. the government and its decorative but useless home secretary will not have a clue how to enforce it…. just look at the new quarantine hotels fro travellers to the UK… due to start next week and no contracts signed yet. How they expect any useful hotel work to be done prior to the start date is a total joke

2 users thanked author for this post.

Montysaurus, ASK1945

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