[cwoodward]

Its being widely reported here that a China eastern flight MU5735 crashed into forest and large fire reported. The Boeing 737-800 was carrying, it is variously reported between 130 and 166 passengers. Casualties are unknown but apparently it was a steep decent and large fire thus not looking at all good. The aircraft was 6.5 years and it seems was only in the air for a short time after taking of from a local airport .

[cwoodward]

Mainland agencies reporting that around 136 passenger’s and crew were killed.

[K1ngston]

Another Boeing, and a 737 to boot, should we be worried flying these aircraft?? May their souls rest in peace!

[esselle]

[postquote quote=1206880]

Any loss like this is tragic, but my sense is (happy to be proven wrong) that it is only the Max that has a poor safety record, whilst the mainstream 737 family has a pretty good record.

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Shamsh1, dutchyankee

[stevescoots]

And the Chinese nationalists loonies on Weibo are already blaming the USA, that all American planes should be banned, that boeing should not be involved in the investigation a stehy will just cover up.

[dutchyankee]

The A318/319/320/321 has a higher fatality rate than the 737-600/700/800/900 family of aircraft. But both family of aircraft have outstanding safety records.

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Swissdiver, Shamsh1

[cwoodward]

The statement above re the B737 offers an incomplete and perhaps a misleading picture the safety record of this aircraft and is factually incorrect. Airbus aircraft measured by any recognised industry criteria have a far better safety record than do Boeing by several times.

The 737 though is an aircraft designed 60 years ago and in my opinion the 737 design should have been retired long ago.
Airbus designs are much more recent and that, from accident statics is very revealing.

Hull losses alone on the Boeing 737 family total 181 .This plus the 72 aircraft involved in other fatal crashes that have been repaired
Actually the 737 family of aircraft has a poor safety record although this has much improved over the years

The list below only shows the B737 crashes in which the aircraft was destroyed beyond repair, Fatality’s are several thousand.

Series W/O’s No Built W/O Rate WO = written off
737-1/200 111 1144 1 in 11
737-3/4/500 51 1990 1 in 40
737-NG 19 7087 1 in 37
737-MAX 2 200+ 1 in 100 of just over 200in service

The Airbus family has had a total of 52 hull loss accidents over its A300 A320 and A330 range of aircraft
To date the A350 range has had no fatal accidents and of course no hull losses
There are a total of 446 A350 currently in service, The first aircraft was delivered in August 2018

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LuganoPirate, maxgeorge, AMcWhirter, Johnnyg

[AMcWhirter]

Lufthansa was the first airline outside North America to operate the B737 way back in 1968.

At that time the B737 was a revolution in short haul jets. Not only was the cabin wider (it was similar to the B707) but it was the first short-haul jet not to have rear-mounted engines.

As a teenager in June 1968 I was thrilled to fly Lufthansa’s B737 between Zurich and Frankfurt. I was in awe of its modern wide cabin interior and the way it flew.

Just arrived from Boeing #throwBlackthursday
Photo: Lufthansa archiv
Aircraft: Boeing 737-130
Airport: Frankfurt – Rhine-Main Int'l (FRA/EDDF)
Reg: D-ABET named "Baden-Baden"
Date: Dec.31.1968
Status: B/u at ADM Jan.8.1998 as "N24213"
–#lufthansa #avgeek #lufthansavintage #b737 pic.twitter.com/mmxIRILzG3

— Lufthansa Vintage (@lufthansavintag) December 30, 2021

In 1968 the B737 had a simple, compact shape. But over the years, and starting with the 300 series, the engines became larger and the fuselage was extended bit by bit.

When the MAX appeared the engines were larger still and the wings had to be repositioned.

This link to Leehamnews explains some of the background behind the MAX ans why, it’s quoted, “Boeing didn’t really want to do the MAX.”

Boeing didn’t want to re-engine the 737–but had design standing by

[dutchyankee]

@cwoodward you can not paint the entire 737 family with the same brush. The NG family of aircraft -600/700/800/900 series have an outstanding safety record, with the 737-800 having a crash ratio of 0.06, which is one of the lowest of any aircraft. Further, The original A320 was known for being one of the most dangerous aircraft on the planet. The original A320 was involved in 119 crashes since its introduction in February 1987. So best to compare apples with apples, and not label someone’s post as factually incorrect when yours is misleading and biased, i.e. ‘The 737 though is an aircraft designed 60 years ago and in my opinion the 737 design should have been retired long ago.
Airbus designs are much more recent and that, from accident statics is very revealing.’

[cwoodward]

dutchyankee
I CAN !
Its the same 60 year design with overall a very dubious safety record that seems with the latest fiasco not to have improved.
Its just well past its use-by date by 20 years or so.
The B737 Aircraft no longer does Boeing’s reputation any favours.
New broom (totally new design) needed here I suggest as should have been done 10 years ago with a huge savings in costs on this B737X disaster of an aircraft.

[Chris in Makati]

[postquote quote=1208241]

How can you attribute the Wuzhou crash to old/poor aircraft design when the cause of the accident is still unknown?

[cwoodward]

Chris
My post was re the the 737 design and safety record – no attribution to any specific incident.
The ‘fiasco’ mentioned referred to the creation of 737X rather than spend less and create a new 2020’s to match or possibly improve on the current excellent Airbus designs.
Apologies if that was not clear to all.

1 user thanked author for this post.

AMcWhirter

[LuganoPirate]

[quote quote=1207383]Lufthansa was the first airline outside North America to operate the B737 way back in 1968.

At that time the B737 was a revolution in short haul jets. Not only was the cabin wider (it was similar to the B707) but it was the first short-haul jet not to have rear-mounted engines.

As a teenager in June 1968 I was thrilled to fly Lufthansa’s B737 between Zurich and Frankfurt. I was in awe of its modern wide cabin interior and the way it flew.[/quote]

And the seats were wider with much more legroom, which as a strapping 6’1″ lad was very comfortable. I seem to recall they also had a First cabin, though in those days and my age that was not really affordable.

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cwoodward

[LuganoPirate]

[postquote quote=1208259]

Despite a couple of incidents in which there were no fatalities or injuries, I believe the A340 has had no (I won’t say the word as I don’t want to tempt fate) crashes to date?

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1208368]I seem to recall they also had a First cabin,[/quote]

Correct LP.

In fact both Lufthansa and Swissair were the final airlines to abolish first class within Europe and replace it with business class.

Back in 1992 I had been visiting the former East Germany and my flight home was with Lufthansa from Berlin TXL to London LGW. (Yes LH also operated from LGW at that time)

Aircraft was a B737.

I shall always remember what happened to me at the departure gate.

I was booked economy but just before boarding I was called to one side and the gate agent said “Mr McWhirter you have been upgegraded” !

So I returned in first class. Economy was fairly full but I recall being the only passenger in the small first class cabin.

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LuganoPirate

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