[NTarrant]

The tax per passenger has to be paid irrespective of what revenue including taxes is received. The will look at the revenue for that journey and will know that if they carry say 86 people they have to pay the tax man 86 x tax due. The rest of the revenue is then divided up to the various cost centres which would be onboard staff, ground staff etc etc.

As I said before it does not matter they pay the tax for a few passengers. I really can’t understand Martyn why you are getting so beat up about it. The tax man still gets his cut.

[travelworld]

Sorry, but I can’t quite see why people get into such a flap about Ryanair. Their business model is plain for all to see and it seems to work pretty well. I’ve flown with them a couple of times and it wasn’t a pleasant experience; I will always try to fly on a decent full service airline in preference-but each to their own.
In terms of headline pricing on all carriers, my view is that you shouldn’t have to pay extra for things from which you can’t opt out; eg taxes and passenger service charges, online check in and payment with major credit or debit cards where you can’t pay by any other means. And BA-isn’t it about time you dropped the fuel surcharge and included it in the cost of the ticket?

[TominScotland]

Martyn, I hope things are clearer to you know. The tax-free option is only available to a very small proportion of passengers, not all, so its very much a loss leader as others have explained. Airports compete with eachother to attract Ryanair as the benefits to the local economy can be huge in terms of related spend by in-bound travellers. Ayrshire is hugely dependent on Prestwick which serves some 2m+ passengers a year – in the mid 1990s there were a couple of years when there were no passenger flights at all through the airport and 95% of those who travel today are with FR.

Ryanair works well iof you accept it for what it is. That is why I encourage those of you stuck in a 1970s, pre-deregulation model of short-haul travel to try it out, if only the once because chances are you will have to in the near future. Ryanair is planning to enter the mainstream airport market (excluding LHR, FRA and, I think, CDG because they are too expensive). When they do, they will drive other, established carriers off some of those routes,

[AMcWhirter]

Tom in Scotland, you are quite correct. Ryanair is planning to enter main European airports (with the exception of LHR and Paris CDG) as it seeks new opportunities:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ryanair-to-serve-major-european-airports

The point about Ryanair’s success is that, besides its rock-bottom operating costs (probably the lowest of any airline in the Western world) it operates on routes (I’m talking here about airport to airport rather than city to city) where it almost every case it holds a monopoly.

So passengers choose Ryanair not because they like its low fares or because they like Ryanair but because it’s by far the most convenient carrier for the route in question.

If you have to fly, for example, from London to Ancona in Italy or from London to Szczecin (or Stettin as it used to be known) in Poland then what other options have you besides Ryanair ?

And these two examples refer just to the UK. Look at Ryanair’s bases in mainland Europe and just look at the route opportunities they offer travellers overseas.

And, yes, Craigwatson, you are correct in that Ryanair negotiated an eye-watering discount from Boeing for its B737-800s.

But that deal was struck in the aftermath of September 11 when passenger numbers collapsed and when even the serious media questioned the future of flying.

I remember that at that time Ryanair kick-started the market with an imaginative advertising campaign. It was also the time when it struck that famous deal with Boeing whose production lines, were it not for Ryanair, would have come to a standstill because other carriers were not ordering planes.

[Deleted User]

thank you all for your comments to this thread, really appreciate the time and discussion people have put in. I certainly received an education about Ryan Air, Thak you MS and those that responded to him, quite an interesting exchange of views.

I know FD makes decisions about buying fuel prices forward and I realise that there are hundreds of permutations for the airline marketing departements to create revenue streams and increase fares. Persoanlly, I have no problem about paying for seat allocation and luggage, but I do feel the airlines are crossing the line when charging an adninistration fee for making an online booking.

All in all, I still see BA as good value and Easy Jet as a sensible back up. As for as the other LCC are concenred, there is only one I flatly refuse to use. The model may be good, but I just detest the guy that runs it as I feel he does put cost before safety.

I think the biggest challenge over the next 5 years is how the high speed trains out of St Pancras will position themselves for both the leisure and busienss market. I think 5 hours was being quoted London to Koln. Once the trains can reach Geneva without changing then the war will certainly be on. the only way the arlines will be able to speed up the service out of London is to move away from LHR becasue quite simply, getting to the airport, gwtting through the airport, slot delays and arrival delays, may not make the difference in timings, city centre to city cenrtre all that different.

The pricing will be the key.

[Age_of_Reason]

All the above – remember that Cost and Value are different things. Ryan and EJ have rocked the cradle nicely and given us all choice. Interesting to note how BA fares are cropped wherever there’s real competition (UK-Sofia, Rome, Milan, Paris) So fly BA and enjoy (esp if someone else’s paying). I just like flying from EDI, ABE.
Eurostar is no competition for Scottish-originating flights – we have to cross the water, and no-one’s interested in connecting the Chunnel to York, never mind EDI.
Next development – the honest carrier treats his customers like freight and the tkt is a one-off lump plus a p/kg bodyweight variable. Suits me, even at 95kg

[VintageKrug]

BA has a very comprehensive microsite which allows you to compare the various charges and fees charges by competing LCC’s:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/value-calculator/public/en_gb

Cost and value are indeed different, and BA often comes ahead of the pack when reviewing price in the round.

[ivornomates]

I think that flybe are the biggest scam artists of all the LCC. You have to work hard to avoid all the add ons they put in there, the biggest being seat selection, I would guess the rake in a fortune by scamming people on seat selection and dont show you how to avoid it. I bet if they were investigated they would get ripped aprt for their website tatics.

[Age_of_Reason]

Thank you VK …. you have provided this BA ‘value’ link before. What it shows is that my point about cost vs value is misunderstood. BA gives a useful ‘COST’ calculator. It will be difficult to find a forward-planned (say 2 weeks ahead) flight for which LCC total cost is > BA total cost (or any other full-service operator), with or without options.
Just as a ‘Total Cost of Ownership’ approach can justify buying BMW over Toyota, so BA may provide best value for some, but for most, we are spending our own money and we want best Value transportation, not a Lifestyle. We ‘travel to live’, not ‘live to travel’.

[VintageKrug]

That’s not at all the case, Age_of_Reason.

The “value calculator” is carefully named to focus on value rather than pure cost. Hence its cleverly value focused title.

http://www.ba.com/valuecalculator

And indeed, in my experience BA can and does often (not always!) come out less expensive than LCCs even in advance purchase scenarios.

This is especially the case if you take into account the Total Value Proposition and incorporate the travel to what may be less convenient airports, less convenient flight times, the need to check a bag.

When you layer on top of that the lounge access (free food/drink/WiFi/Newspapers) afforded for premium cabins and Silver/Gold frequent flyers, and benefits of the frequent flyer scheme, as well as the wider range of connections and longhaul network, it can often be very difficult to make a financial case for flying aboard an LCC. Even for personally paid travel.

[Age_of_Reason]

Perhaps I am missing the irony in BA’s choice of words – are they playing the LCC game of ‘headline attraction, then devil in the detail’?
That would be somewhat tabloid, not the reading material of choice in the Business Lounges.
I rest my case (at home usually, travelling light being my preference). If it “can often be difficult” then it must also be sometimes easy (to make a financial case for….LCC). Remember that one person’s inconvenience is another’s doorstep, and in UK the majority does NOT live within feeder distance of LHR. So it’s more often very difficult to justify flying any other way than LCC, as the growth in traffic onto warm LCC seat cushions demonstrates. All these people who make their decision initially on cost are increasingly finding that their life is enhanced and the inconvenient 2 or 3 hours of travel is transcended by a total travel experience which has enhanced the lifestyle value immeasurably. It works for me – using LCC to enjoy some continental variety before taking my Expat Business Bus on the europaean market leaders.

[Deleted User]

I read some time ago that some were moaning about there being no CE on a LON-JER run. Well having just endured a FlyBe bus service from Gatwick to Guernsey, I am not sure what all the fuss is about.

The aircraft was small, with 2 spinning things, which i think were attached to an engine. Seat selection would have cost me £5 to make. The cabin crew were just pulling carts up and down the aisle but they did look smart and new how to do a safety demo. The pilots, I think they were on the flight deck but could not have told you whether there was one or 2. No window shades, no free drinks, I stocked up in one of the lounges before hand. Hell of a walk at Gatwick.

BUT – flight left on time, very comfortable – I do like a 2 – 2 seating. Quiet cabin, flight time was 40 minutes, not long enough to fire up the computer. By the time the lights went off, the crew managed to get half way down the cabin with the duty free then called it a day as the lights went back on.

Pax are genuinely scared of being charged for large or overweight bags, so there was plenty of room in the bins. No one bought on more than 1 piece of hand luggage. Disembarking was quick, 10 minute stop at Jersey then the elastic bands wound up again and off we went to Guernsey – 10 minutes later, we were there.

Coming back another quick 40 minute hop and back to Gatwick.

OK this was not club world, what it was was a cheap ticket, increased substantially by the add ons by the Governement and Airport authorities.

It worked, I am not sure how anyone could exepct a meal or snack service on such a short flight.

Well done Flybe, I made an arrangement to be picked up at 8.30pm at my rail station north of London, on Sunday, for when I got back 2 nights ago. I got to the station at 8.20 having left Guernsey at 6.10. That involved Gatwick airport and rail station, Kings X and my local station. It worked to the minute.

Cheapo may not be cheapo but on this occasion it was very timely.

[NTarrant]

Charles, there is CE on LGW-JER and given the short journey it is good. I can’t say that I have had a poor journey in CE on this route and I use it at least once or twice a month.

The problem with Flybe is there pricing policy is not clear and too many add ons. I used to use SOU-JER but stopped using Flybe when it was difficlut to ever use the Rewards4all and that they became more expensive than BA out of LGW (in Y).

[VintageKrug]

CMB, how much did you pay for your flight on flybe?

[Deleted User]

I can only quote the total £119.68. Cant find the breakdown of charges on the remaining paperwork. Flight was booked around 5 days before departure. Did not pay for reserved seats.

Nigel, the point I was making about CE LON to JER was that I was trying to guage the timing of a meal/snack service. I hardly had time to consume my fruit bar and water before the seat belt sign came back on.

Give me long haul any day!!!!

[Author]

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