[SimonS1]

I try to use EK where I can but have had bad experiences including a 6 hour delay last week from Lusaka to Harare (a 35 minute flight).

However I generally find the hard and soft products better than most.

Unfortunately there are always those who seem to have continually bad experiences and are blighted at every turn. Perhaps Schaible is the EK equivalent of our old friend Binman? Someone under that name is still telling everyone on FT how bad BA are….

[HappytobeSilver]

I recently flew GLA-DXB-CCU with EK in J, though on the return leg DXB-GLA I upgraded to First with miles. In essence I found the catering and wine choice to be very good- excellent in F. The seats GLA-DXB in J were lie flat and very comfortable, the private suite in F, I found almost a bit too private. What did disappoint was the 1970s style J seating on their A330 which flew the DXB-CCU sectors.

[Dinosaur]

Having flown QR and BA/CX/AF from the UK/Continental Europe to the Far East i would agree that the QR product does appear to be superior in Business. However personally, i much prefer one long flight to Asia than the 2 shorter flights required by the gulf carriers. I find it helps me to sleep better and relax.

Just my personal preference but something i do factor in when looking at my options.

[esselle]

I fly J in CX a couple of times a year, and have done pretty much every year for the last 20 or so.

Currently sitting in the QF first class lounge in SYD waiting to fly up to HKG, I know I will get their latest J class hard product and relaxed, attentive service with a reasonable range and standard of food and drink and good choice of IFE. Sleep comes easy with comfort equivalent to BA F excepting pyjamas and mattress.

I don’t remember ever being disappointed on a CX flight, and prefer the “no surprises” outcome to the highs and lows that you can get on EK, QR, EY etc.

[esselle]

I fly J in CX a couple of times a year, and have done pretty much every year for the last 20 or so.

Currently sitting in the QF first class lounge in SYD waiting to fly up to HKG, I know I will get their latest J class hard product and relaxed, attentive service with a reasonable range and standard of food and drink and good choice of IFE. Sleep comes easy with comfort equivalent to BA F excepting pyjamas and mattress.

I don’t remember ever being disappointed on a CX flight, and prefer the “no surprises” outcome to the highs and lows that you can get on EK, QR, EY etc.

[inthesandpit]

I recently flew DXB – HKG on CX, reasonable experience, nice food, good sleep and what i would call attentive and engaging crew. My last CX experience was many years ago on a B742.
I chose CX over EK on the HKG trip for cost, and previous bad experiences with EK. EK is much more expensive when originating from the Gulf and also from LON if you are just making the trip to DXB.

The return on MH to DXB from HKG via KUL was even better.

I do agree with Schiable, EK compared to the rest of the Gulf carriers is lagging behind – where else with forward facing seats do you have 2/3/2 config in J on the 777 and old reclining seats on the 330. Not experienced the A380 yet but colleagues have said its OK, too big a cabin though and can be very impersonal.

[cityprofessional]

AllOverTheGaff
Where did you hear the news that EK is moving to flat beds? That’s excellent news that they will refit 160 777s and A330s…. Oh, except it’s not true!
I’m sure if you were flying SEA-DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC you wouldn’t mind being on a slopey bed in the middle seat of business class in a 777…

I think your information on other airlines is out of date:
Etihad, Delta, JAL and CX are completely flat bed in longhaul J
QR is phasing out or refitting its remaining non-flatbed A330/A340s
Aer Lingus, American, Lufthansa and Air France are all refitting their current fleets to go flat
Malaysian is flat on A380s

[AllOverTheGaff]

cityprofessional – 30/04/2015 10:28 BST
Where did you hear the news that EK is moving to flat beds? That’s excellent news that they will refit 160 777s and A330s…. Oh, except it’s not true!

Where did you read that they weren’t? You suggest above that they have 160 777’s & A330’s in their fleet with non-lie-flats, these wouldn’t be up for replacement would they? And when they are up for replacement, do you think they might fit them with the new seating? Can you advise where you came up with the figure of 160? Wiki?

I’m sure if you were flying SEA-DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC you wouldn’t mind being on a slopey bed in the middle seat of business class in a 777…

Erm, I wouldn’t book the above with any airline.

I think your information on other airlines is out of date:
Etihad, Delta, JAL and CX are completely flat bed in longhaul J

You never mentioned long haul before, you said something about “Key routes”. Of the 160 you allege above, how many of those are long haul? What is your definition of long haul?

QR is phasing out or refitting its remaining non-flatbed A330/A340s
Aer Lingus, American, Lufthansa and Air France are all refitting their current fleets to go flat

I didn’t say they weren’t. You said you’d never fly with an airline that couldn’t guarantee you a lie-flat, I merely replied that you must be very selective in who you fly with. All of the above airlines are re-fitting, so are EK and they’re also buying new planes.

Malaysian is flat on A380s
EK is flat on all their A380’s too. And on the vast majority of their fleet.

Seems a bit hypocritical to single EK out as an airline you wouldn’t fly because of the lack of flat-beds then defend all those other airlines who are retrofitting.

[cityprofessional]

AOTG, I can only judge on the routes I use the most. So that’s UK to SE Asia. Take SIN for example – flights you can take today:

Etihad – always flat
BA – always flat
SQ – always flat
Qatar – always flat – A350, A380, 777, 787
Delta, United via the US – always flat
Cathay – always flat to HK, and then mostly flat on the 3 hour hop
MH – always flat to KL, then a 40 minute hop south
AF – hop to CDG, then flat for 12 hours
LH – hop to FRA, then flat
LX – hop to ZRH, then flat

EK – only flat on one flight a day to SIN, and some flights from the UK. There are 3x more non A380s than non-A380s in the fleet. A380s are constantly being subbed out for 777s
Nope, no thanks

[rferguson]

In reality it seems that ‘service deterioration’ is an industry wide thing. Looking at other websites/blogs/articles/forums there are many postings for every airline out there about the deterioration of inflight service, cutbacks, etc etc. Even Singapore Airlines regulars are moaning online about declining standards.

I guess it is a human condition, always craving something better, newer, more ‘WOW’. Give loyalty to a particular airline and then at some point get fed up with the ‘same old’ or cut backs and try something new. The something new is soon out done by something newer. At some point even that will become predictable, boring, functional.

Some things are like marmite for people – love it or hate it. For example, Richardball finds on-demand dining on QR a bonus. For me, on an aircraft with 2x2x2 seating I find it annoying! When QR first started up MEL-DOH I flew them and the route was (and still is) served by a 777 with fully flat seating although not direct aisle access. I was in a window seat and dined ‘traditionally’ (ie eat/sleep/eat/land) although the person sat next to me decided to dine in the middle of the flight while the whole cabin was asleep and in darkness. It was so annoying – seat area lights switched on, table laid up, food delivered course by course, clinking, clunking. I can see this working on an aircraft with a 1-2-1 config but it’s not fit for purpose on other aircraft.

[RichardBall6]

Hi All, It’s good to see some good debate. I’m new to this and when I registered, the site said it would assign me a name if I didn’t select one. I didn’t realise that they would actually use my real name – but hey ho, the CX CSD will be after me next time!

I agree consistency is really important. I fly PER to LHR and return 5-6 time a year – over the last 11 years, this equates to around 250 individual legs. This has been with QF, CX, EK and QR (plus one awful experience with SAS via SYD). What is clear is that the standards across all airlines has improved greatly in J over those years. What is also interesting is that the actual relationship with customers has declined somewhat. The airlines rely too much, I think, on their FF programs. I am currently sticking with my BA scheme, but only because when I am in Europe I value the first class lounge at LHR T5 and am working on lifetime gold with them (I achieved QF;s version of this some years ago). I run my own little company, but have absolute discretion on who I spend my $50,000 – $60,000 pa flying with. However, I don’t get on the radars of the airlines I actually fly with. There used to be state managers with QF who would interact now and then and certainly would notice whether or not you have stopped flying with them. This is no longer the case.

For now, I’m sticking with QR.

I agree on the dining on demand comment from rferguson. It could be annoying to your neighbour. But then it is a bit of a selfish thing I suppose. Certainly, it is great for me when flying from Australia to Europe. The way that I counteract any nuisance from my neighbour in this regard is six G&Ts, one Tamezepam and ear plugs. 7-8 hours sleep guaranteed!

[rferguson]

Richard, welcome!

It’s funny you mention about QF managers interacting and noticing if passengers have stopped flying with them. With technology these days it has certainly moved things forward. I recently operated a flight back from the middle east and was working on the upper deck in club. While going through the passenger list on the iPad I noticed a message next to two passengers that I had never seen before. It was along the lines of ‘these passengers are flying with us for the first time after an extended period of not travelling with us and formerly Silver/Gold card holders’. I’m not exactly sure what my employer wanted me to do with that information – interrogate them as to ‘why’ although I probably know the answers myself! But it is amazing the wealth of information an airline holds on us all these days!

[rferguson]

Richard, welcome!

It’s funny you mention about QF managers interacting and noticing if passengers have stopped flying with them. With technology these days it has certainly moved things forward. I recently operated a flight back from the middle east and was working on the upper deck in club. While going through the passenger list on the iPad I noticed a message next to two passengers that I had never seen before. It was along the lines of ‘these passengers are flying with us for the first time after an extended period of not travelling with us and formerly Silver/Gold card holders’. I’m not exactly sure what my employer wanted me to do with that information – interrogate them as to ‘why’ although I probably know the answers myself! Since that flight i’ve noticed the same message sporadically on others so it must be a new thing. It is amazing the wealth of information an airline holds on us all these days!

And OT but while talking about Qantas – I find them absolutely fantastic to fly with. IMHO they are streets ahead of the other ‘western’ carriers and now that they are reconfiguring all their A330’s I will go out of my way to fly them. Their lounges, their contemporary service style, their staff who have a slight degree of aussie informal-ness but also extremely professional – love them!

[AllOverTheGaff]

cityprofessional – 30/04/2015 11:01 BST
AOTG, I can only judge on the routes I use the most. So that’s UK to SE Asia. Take SIN for example – flights you can take today:

Every airline you mention has non-lie-flat J in their fleet, with BA being the obvious exception on only long-haul. Even then, BA from Australia via LHR to somewhere in Europe results with flying in CE, a product which is often lambasted on this forum. (Can’t comment as haven’t flown BA CE in years and years)

If I go CX via Hong Kong to Asia, there’s a reasonable chance that the 2nd leg won’t be on lie-flats. Same with JAL, I know as I’ve used both airlines twice last year, and both times I wasn’t lie flat. AA via JFK from these shores to anywhere else in North America isn’t lie flat. Same with Delta. And so on and so on.

On the routes I fly with EK, over the past 8 years or so of flying with them, I’ve only ever had lie-flat. Their GLA flight used to only be once a day and two class, is now twice a day and offers a sensational 1st class product.

If your reason for not flying XYZ airline is because of a lack of lie-flats, as your original point opined, then you’ve ruled out almost every airline. When you narrow it down to “routes I fly”, that’s a different statement entirely, and one I relate to. There are airlines on my no-fly list, many of them in the list you’ve put on here, because of a lack of lie flat – or – in the case of Delta, who offer a lie-flat, because their on-board product is awful.

Besides, is a fairly redundant argument now as you can easily research what is and is not on-board with most airlines before buying the ticket – if you are then going to make the point about replacement aircraft, this can happen with any airline where you book a lie-flat and because of a tech issue you end up on an old reserve plane with old style seating. Yes, it happens more with EK because they have one of the largest fleets in the sky, I’d wager EK have more lie-flat seats in the sky than every other airline out there, for sure they have, by some considerable margin, the largest fleet of A380’s.

So, I don’t really get the point you’re labouring about lie-flats, but to each his own.

[Flightlevel]

Well since all BA long haul has had lie flat J seats for what seems forever its good to know the others are catching up at last. Now too the others are adding economy plus seats and about time! It will be interesting to see how many airlines add economy sleeping (3) seats after Air NZ has done.

[Author]

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