[MarcusGB]

Whilst we are all wandering about Brexit, Trade deals, Aviation freedoms “if” we exit with No Deal, I read this last night.
I had not heard much discussion, this angle, being blocked from flying in, simply due to EU not accepting other International travellers, from outside varying countries. Currently we are allowed in, but travel corridors are open and closed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55256248

Being Outside of the EU, regardless of any arrangements made for Aviation, Covid could then strike the ability to fly into the EU, however how the UK is classified, regardless of a travel corridor.
The EU has a restriction on non EU flights / Passengers entering Europe, and clearly we are outside 1st January 2021.

Despite the great news of A few Vaccines, we do not have a good record compared to most countries in Managing Covid, with the continuing infections stepping up the last days, plus overall deaths.
This is a reversal, once more ( though for me these are not waves, but the sheer pattern of the virus), and prior to mass travelling being made over Xmas.
Likelihood is another period of tight restriction / form of Lockdown after Xmas, so perception of risk of allowing UK Citizens into other countries, AND the EU, is poor of the UK.

We all heard of Qantas and a few Airlines that have stated that a PCR test and certificate will be needed to fly Internationally, once they re-start, and as Entry requirements for Countries, are going the same way.
Some are giving a maximum of hrs prior to flying, which for long haul, would not be reliable with the turn around speed of tests here in time for a 48-72 hr deadline, flight time, and getting to your destination within 48/72 hrs holding a valid Certificate.

Are we heading the need to carry a Covid Health certification along with our passport? There is much speculation about reliability and accuracy of the swab tests, even if enabled at the airport.
If a Vaccine has been taken by the passenger, we will probably need to carry some indication, to be allowed to fly, or entry to a country.

What are the Forum members views on this?

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1042185]f a Vaccine has been taken by the passenger, we will probably need to carry some indication, to be allowed to fly, or entry to a country.[/quote]

You would have thought it would make sense, but apparently not… apart from a card with your name and batch number.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55143484

I appreciate the vaccine is ‘early days’ in terms of roll out, but I am curious how different countries will react to the vaccines and whether each country will recognize / accept each vaccine’s credibility (or phase 3 testing).

Interesting to see how and when the vaccine will allow the world to reopen…. and what travel protocols will be….

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StephenLondon

[J_Pathmore]

Great topic.

I can’t believe that the developed nations of Europe / UK / USA will mandate vaccination for travel. Not only will access be unequal for months (years) to come, but if these countries aren’t requiring it of their own citizens they can’t require it of others. And let’s be clear: COVID is a tragedy and disaster, but the death rates compared to other illnesses like Yellow Fever, Measles, Polio etc. are night and day.

I see the following playing out in Europe, US, Africa, Middle-East over the coming months:

1. Test flights popping up where passengers get tested before and after, such as the Atlanta Amsterdam route through Easter and late Spring
2. As vaccines are rolled out and high risk populations are protected, this will then move to most countries adopting a negative test before arrival requirement
3. Once we hit a critical mass of inoculations (perhaps 50% or so), and both cases and deaths have plummeted, I believe borders will be open with certain testing restrictions placed on countries that haven’t been vaccinated in bulk yet

Note Asia, Australasia are challenging due to the high level of success they’ve had against the virus, and the more radical nature of their governments. I can’t imagine Australia will be open in any meaningful form until Q2/3 2021.

Curious to hear thoughts, but I believe one thing to be certain: no matter how backwards the European governments have been on travel policies thus far, they CANNOT survive another summer with closed borders. Testing before and after flights can bridge us there, but can by no means be rolled out in significant scale come June, it’s just too impractical.

[Bullfrog]

This was reported in The Guardian on Thursday. It did say that member states could vary or make up their own directives. The general closure of the EU to U.K. tourists, as opposed to those with work responsibilities.
Some may say it is EU adding further misery to BREXIT.

Whilst one may think of nations ‘closing their borders to tourism’, some nations were busy with their own populations that took domestic holidays outside of the lockdown periods.

It is very complex and rather depressing. Even if one tests negative 72 hours before a leisure trip, it is questionable how much one can enjoy a trip, however cheap it may be, with the added risks of catching the virus whilst abroad, and consequent repercussions.

[MarcusGB]

Sadly as we enter the day for a “No Deal”, it seems that both sides will be endangering their Aviation Industry, with no horizon that can be seen for 6 months, a year.
KLM, AF, Swiss, LH, all had such a huge transfer to their International and Continental networks. KLM had some 18 UK Airports and a lot of flight (around 25 a day to London alone!)
Their CEO said last year that their UK Network was essential to them turning profits, and Europe was their Domestic base network.

No doubt this will hit the Low Cost Airlines based here, and in Europe.
And if the agreement so far has been out to Europe and back to the UK, then this restricts Airlines schedules in different countries and between.
Another Nail in the coffin for European Airlines, especially as many Long haul Countries show no signs of opening up, some for 1-1.5 yrs as Australia.
Subsidised, given loans or not, unless the European Airlines can get moving soon, even within Europe, it is a dismal if not terminal outlook.
They cannot be subsidised for ever! More will disappear.

If we are looking at 3/4 “Waves” of Covid in Europe, then it is a dim outlook for so much and so many in Tourism, small hotels, large Airlines.
Nothing and nowhere for us to travel as Travellers for Leisure or Business, even though we are bursting to support all, and it is desperately needed Worldwide in so many countries. Many of these are not rich Countries, or large enterprises.

There should be an International drive to Support Tourism, Airlines, Hotel groups, and not this selfish inward looking activity, that is completely Self Destructive Worldwide. What a dismal outlook, and negative Ignorance from European Leaders, and the UK.
They have made NO Efforts or given any plans to support Aviation / Tourism, interconnectivity Worldwide at all.
Utterly Negligent!

[SimonS1]

Negative ignorance from the UK? No efforts to support interconnectivity? There must be 80 countries/territories on the UK corridor list now, including most of Asia and Middle East (too bad most of Asia is closed….). Plus the UK has remained opened for inward travellers throughout. Honestly, I do read some nonsense on here these days.

Unfortunately Europe remains badly hit – I go regularly to Luxembourg and noticed it has the 3rd worst rate of infection globally after Andorra and Estonia. So inevitably there will be some controls, unless we are all willing to let go and have an uncontrolled model. I can’t see that happening with a vaccine in sight.

A shame for KLM and its UK network, but the reality is transit business is not ideal right now. If I go direct from Dubai to London on Emirates/BA, no quarantine. If I transit for 2 hours in Amsterdam then its 14 (10) days quarantine. No brainer really….thank you Emirates and move on.

Once the vaccination rolls out I agree, some arrangements on ‘passports’ will be needed to get travel moving. But we are still a way off that yet.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1047073]Plus the UK has remained opened for inward travellers throughout.[/quote]

…you omitted Simon, subject to self isolation / quarantine rules as per Government rules. As you well know, Simon, the UK’s idea of enforcing these requirements are extremely casual to say the least, with the vast majority of arriving passengers still entering the UK unchallenged, unchecked and free to do as they wish, once inside the terminal.

Fact is, Brits (ex-UK) are unable to enter without ‘serious’ quarantine, to most of the countries, whom the UK gives ‘open arms’ treatment to.. (even convicted terrorists formerly imprisoned in the USA are welcomed into the UK – but that’s another story)…

As for the situation post 1st January, if only the politicians could get rid of their ego’s and work collectively.. we are not at war…. yet…

1 user thanked author for this post.

PeterCoultas

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=1047886]…you omitted Simon, subject to self isolation / quarantine rules as per Government rules. As you well know, Simon, the UK’s idea of enforcing these requirements are extremely casual to say the least, with the vast majority of arriving passengers still entering the UK unchallenged, unchecked and free to do as they wish, once inside the terminal.[/quote]

Indeed, however there are still plenty of places that can be accessed quarantine free.

I suppose this thread illustrates the difficulties faced: on the one hand you have been consistently worked up by “passengers still entering the UK unchallenged, unchecked and free to do as they wish” and MarcusGB on the other is complaining about “negative ignorance from the UK” and “no efforts to support interconnectivity”.

You can’t please everyone I guess.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1048383]I suppose this thread illustrates the difficulties faced: on the one hand you have been consistently worked up by “passengers still entering the UK unchallenged, unchecked and free to do as they wish” and MarcusGB on the other is complaining about “negative ignorance from the UK” and “no efforts to support interconnectivity”.

You can’t please everyone I guess.[/quote]

Your view appears to be about trying to please people…

If arriving passengers must quarantine / self isolate, this is not something that is voluntary. There are only difficulties when people think the rules do not apply to them. The pity is, the quarantine / self isolation rules are not generally being enforced or monitored…

Whether I am pleased or not with the restrictions is irrelevant..

1 user thanked author for this post.

PeterCoultas

[SimonS1]

I am not sure why you are trying to spin things Martyn but as you know I was replying to MarcusGB post (rant?) that no efforts were being made by the UK to build connectivity.

There are currently 76 countries/territories from which you can enter the country WITHOUT QUARANTINE. Including most of Asia and the Middle East.

Short of a complete free for all I’m not sure what else can be done to open things up.

The fact that other countries are closed down or people don’t want to travel is a different issue.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=1048712]The fact that other countries are closed down or people don’t want to travel is a different issue.[/quote]

Selective as always Simon.

Travel is not one way – great to hear Asia (part of which is suffering further Covid waves) can enter UK freely. Prisoner Style Quarantine still in force for us Brits… in most of Asia and rest of the world…

[Bullfrog]

[postquote quote=1048913][/postquote]

Up until now, parts of Asia like Taiwan, HK & SQ have had far greater control of Covid, much of this down to the size of each country but also the ability of the authorities to enforce strict quarantine.

The latter is something the U.K. does not have the system, nor the resources, nor the inclination.

It’s inevitable that ‘quarantine free travel’ is one way .. those countries whose infections are LESS than the U.K. are understandably welcome, but if the U.K. infection is higher than those countries, it is quite understandable the quarantine free travel is not reciprocated.

[SimonS1]

[postquote quote=1048913][/postquote]

What has that got to do with the UK Government?

[jjlasne]

I don’ t see what would be the issue about adding the Covid vaccination to the yellow certificate of vaccinations most travellers already carry whilst travelling to regions where it is required for entry.

4 users thanked author for this post.

TupeloKid, EasternPedlar, ASK1945, PeterCoultas

[J_Pathmore]

Can anyone here possibly argue that the sweeping travel restrictions in the EU or USA since March, or Peru, or Argentina, or South Africa etc. etc. etc. have been effective?

Outside of a few select Asian countries, Australia and NZ, travel restrictions have destroyed livelihoods with no benefit. They are political tools propagated by people who have no idea what they’re talking about. You never hear doctors speak about the effectiveness of long term border closures, for good reason.

Subject to a negative test within a certain timeframe, travelers should be welcome and without quarantine. The number of people that catch and spread the virus during the 48-72 hours before departure will likely be an insignificant fraction of community level transmission. If you really want to be careful in the case of an island nation, test all travelers again on arrival.

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