[Travellator]

I assume this will apply to Domestic as well such as Man EDI GLA and BHD, so no hot breakfast anymore on the red eyes

[canucklad]

@ Travellator
Nope, no more breakfasts
As I said earlier, £307 OW and then its kerching, for your coffee, kerching for your M&S bacon buttie, kerching for your yogurt.

Compare that with £200 first class on Virgin East Coast return
A no brainer !!

[TominScotland]

MrMichael, thank you for your rational and realistic comments +++

I fully agree that harking back to the ‘good old days’ of BMI or upholding what it is to be British is meaningless in this debate. It is about trying to make short-haul in Europe a realistic proposition in face of the point-to-point competition offered by the LCCs. Every other European airline is changing, compromising and many are struggling in this space. So why the knee-jerk hyper-ventilation over BA?

I have just completed 4 European legs with KLM – GLA-AMS-MUC and return in Economy (EC seating because I have a Platinum card). With apologies to MarcusGB who appears to see KLM through very thick, rose-tinted specs, the whole experience was mediocre at best and very poor at times – very 3*. Out-station boarding in GLA and MUC was chaotic and uncontrolled (I know this is not managed directly by KLM but it is their responsibility), especially in MUC where it was literally a surge to the gate once the flight was called. Once on board, cabin crew do nothing to facilitate speedy seating, unlike on BA where they are generally proactive and helpful – maybe these are Dutch trade union rules, I don’t know. The “free food” was not worth the money we did not directly pay for it – inedible stale sandwiches on the first leg, stale cake on the second, another, slightly better sandwich on the third and unpleasant crisps on the final return leg. Drinks were fine, limited but OK choice. Coffee, which I had twice, was tepid. I saw very little in KLM Economy catering that was worth preserving and that would not be trumped by BA’s M & S plans.

[DerekVH]

This would all be OK if BA were charging LCC fares; as canucklad has indicated a return LHR-GLA or LHR-EDI can be £600+ I can get to JFK for that AND get free food and drinks included!

[UKGB_AG75]

I don’t have a problem with buying my own sandwich/salad from pret or somewhere else in the terminal before boarding. What I do resent is now having to buy a soft drink, water and I’m sure for those that drink it, tea or coffee.

Just like I do on Easyjet, I’ll buy everything in the terminal shops before boarding rather than pay out on board. BA, you wont’ get any more money out of me and that’s if I fly with them shorthaul in future. It will all come down to price/times of flights, as the avios offering/tier points is just not enough to entice me to keep travelling with them.

The marketing spin from BA is just pathetic trying to justify the change. Be honest and upfront and the public might grumble a bit, but they’ll accept it…’based on customer feedback/choice’, please, they really do take us for absolute fools.

[MrMichael]

Supply & demand DerekVH. Personally I would not go near such a fare for such a journey, but if BA can get that, jolly good for them.

Something I forgot to mention about BOB is that my experience is that one gets served faster. As people only buy what they really really want, instead of having things because they are there, service is much faster getting to people that do want to buy. Another enhancement for me.

[YellowBelly]

Just goes to show the difference between positive customer satisfaction to gain reputation vs accountancy to reward shareholders – the question is who is more valuable long-term, customers or shareholders? The accountants should learn that you can run a business without shareholders but you can’t without customers.

[MartynSinclair]

“LHR-GLA or LHR-EDI can be £600+” – long live the current avios availability for short haul… 🙂 and Pret food outlets…

[canucklad]

A couple of points I’d make

MrMichael, I’d agree that you can get served quicker, but………

When I’ve flown on flights where BOB is the norm and crew are used to managing their shop, it’s very dependent on a few factors whether or not it’s a good experience.

Most important factor: Your seat!! This will decide the outcome of your service level.
At best your choice might not be available
At worst, they just don’t get to you!! Happened a few times.to me.

Flight duration: Linked to above, but also influences the crew behaviour, especially if they’re motivated by commission.

Time of day and sector flown.
If you’re on the final flight of that aircraft, it’s a lottery on what’s left, as for ice in your G&T, forget it!! A major factor here is if your aircraft just been to a leisure destination!!

BOB also negatively impacts toilet access and you’ll find that the seat belt sign will remain on longer!!

I’ve also checked the Avios redemption rates…….absolutely comical!
It’s also an exercise in removing the sheds loads of unused Avios.
I’ve already been warned about my account, and expiration of points!!
A price of a G&T is the equivalent of 7.5 % of a European flight!! Hopefully it’s Hendricks!!

And to clarify, I don’t have an issue with BA and BOB, they’ve long ago given up the fight, whilst all around them overtake their “those were the days” levels of service.
I’ve got an issue with BA and other legacy carriers being duplicates in their branding message. if you’re offering a LCC service you’re an LCC carrier!!

And I’m sorry, the introduction of BOB won’t result in lower fares, it will result in even greater profits! Did we see a reduction in prices, when BA’s biggest annual running cost significantly fell?

Ehmm no …….They are still twice as expensive as QR and AF/KL if I want to fly EDI -HKG

[Hermes1964]

Afraid I didn’t not get the fuss.

Firstly, this was inevitable. The LCC/ full service point is misplaced. The point is that airlines such as BA have to bridge the two business models and flex where necessary across their operations. If this makes more financial sense for their short haul operation then of course they should move to BOB. Who is really holding out for a “free” bite size sandwich of type over which they have no control?

It’s always been an option to stop off at Pret before a short haul flight before the days of BOB. Looking at the prices that’s not necessarily going to be a cheaper option. Actually made to order tea and coffee on a plane are better than what normally comes out of the jug. A long while since I’ve flown on FR, but their tea was by far the best I’ve ever had on a plane and I’d rather pay for it.

At many European destinations there is no decent option to purchase before boarding, and I’ve often simply don’t have time if dashing from meeting to plane. So it will actually be a relief to have more choice on board.

The real test will be how quickly the crew can manage the service. EI seem to manage perfectly well in 50 mins to Dublin, though end of day stocks are sometimes low. IB could do with starting Half an hour earlier. They are often still at it overhead Bilbao on the way to Madrid. On the daily A340, you don’t stand a chance if at the back of the bus.

In a years time we’ll all be wondering what the fuss was about, but no doubt have found a new bone of contention on which to gnaw.

[JohnHarper]

Now that BA are offering a low cost service I thought I’d do a few comparisons on fares. All are from LGW on easyJet and where possible on BA and out on 1st March 2017 returning 8th March 2017 and bought on the basis of HBO without card fees.

Edinburgh: BA £91 easyJet £69
Glasgow: BA £83 easyJet £69
Nice: BA £100 easyJet £66
Malta: BA £116 easyJet £75
Milan: BA £92 easyJet £60 – Malpensa in both cases
Lyon: BA £82 easyJet £67
Amsterdam: BA £70 easyJet £60
Barcelona: BA £82 easyJet £58

Doesn’t it make interesting reading. I could have gone on but BA’s website seems to have crashed but anyway I think the point is made.

To fly to rip you off.

Mr Michael will be along in a moment to tell us why BA is still better value from LGW to the various destinations!

[FaroFlyer]

Hermes1964, I completely agree with you. What is all the fuss about?? It is a commercial decision by a quoted company!

JohnHarper says it is a rip off. Of course it isn’t. A “rip off” is only where you have no choice. There is a choice. He is also comparing apples with pears. Unless I am completely out of touch, easyJet does not have an FFP and does not operate lounges for top tier clients. Yes, I know that Gatwick lounge is currently closed for refurbishment, but it will open again.

I do like BA, but I also like other airlines. Monarch extra leg room product, with old seats, is excellent, and I don’t care that I have to pay for this, and drinks, food and bags.

The World has moved on, it is a pity that so may contributors to this forum can not.

[openfly]

@Johnharper Well done. An excellent, interesting, comparison.

[seasonedtraveller]

[quote quote=762030]
I agree with what many have said, I am not really bothered by this change but it annoys me that BA are trying to sell this as something the customer has been demanding; show me one customer who has said they would prefer to pay for their gin and tonic than have it complimentary.
[/quote]

Actually, I completely agree with you.
I really don’t care since (other than a glass of water) I don’t partake in BA’s current offering between LBA/MAN and LHR.

What gets to me however, is BA Management trying (and failing) to turn this into a positive statement…. It’s like talking up a 10 nil defeat in soccer.
I would like to see a little proof from BA that this is ‘customer driven’

[canucklad]

Hi FaroFlyer
You make some excellent points when you compare apples and pears
But I wonder if the scale of the price discrepancies JH has highlighted really justifies the cost price of a sandwich, albeit, not just any sandwich!

Firstly, due to the mad economics and accounting that airlines use, the BA EXEC club actually falls within the black column, not the red.
Don’t know why, but it does.

Now looking at some other costs
The upheaval in employee relations at BA over the recent ears means that EZ probably have higher cabin crew costs.

I’m sure at LGW , landing fees et al are the same

So it comes back to BA’s duplicity…….
And I’m afraid I can’t agree that it’s a way of keeping fares low.
Like every other ancillary charge , our national carrier and bean counting management team invoke on us, they do so, because they know they can.

Happy shareholders, at least until the tipping point is reached.
Marketing yourself as a premium carrier and then delivering Ryanair style service is just shameful.

[Author]

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