'Boeing's Killer Planes' on BBC One

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This topic contains 26 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  cwoodward 8 Aug 2019
at 05:35
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  • Jenni Reid
    Keymaster

    Tonight’s episode of Panorama (8:30pm on BBC1) will be about the 737 Max, for those interested.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00077cw

    Unsurprisingly looks as though it will be pretty damning
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49142761


    K1ngston
    Participant

    It was pretty damning indeed. The CEO of Boeing earned $70M last year and won’t take responsibility for the actions of the company he leads…

    Watching him squirm under questioning was excruciating and in my opinion he should be removed from his post and proper recompense made to the families of those that died…


    capetonianm
    Participant

    He came across as cold, aloof, loathsome, uncaring, and mercenary.

    6 users thanked author for this post.

    canucklad
    Participant

    What alarmed me most, is the simple fact that the MCAS software was created to resolve the bigger issue of an aircraft airframe that was recognizably pushed beyond its normal flying characteristics.

    To then knowingly refer to them as minor changes to manipulate the FAA, seems to me to be a criminal act.

    I suspect that Dennis Muilenburgs obscene salary and bonuses will now be used to defend him and others on corporate manslaughter charges that will be sure to follow.


    Poshgirl58
    Participant

    The programme needed to be an hour, to explore the issue further. The BBC should have used the budget from that awful Planespotting Live last week (subject for another thread perhaps?!)

    The CEO’s attitude was unbelievable. Boeing’s problems have stemmed from arrogance and greed. Instead of accepting that competition is healthy, they’ve adopted a cheap “fix” on an old aircraft with disastrous results. They should have read the signs when the likes of Delta started buying Airbus.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    Personally I thought it was a rushed documentary which in 29 mins could not do justice to the issues.

    Boeing clearly did not engage, or perhaps they couldn’t in view of impending law suits, so it was never going to be that balanced.

    The case against Boeing does look pretty damning, appearing once again like a company putting profits ahead of more important things. Still things don’t look entirely smooth on Airbus side either, with mutterings about their aircraft on other threads.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    esselle
    Participant

    Didn’t see the programme, but have seen other interviews with Muilenburg on the matter and he does seem to be a touch on the shifty side.

    It’s hard to make a positive out of Boeing’s situation right now, but contrast this with the way Michael Bishop fronted up to a big issue when they lost an aircraft on final approach into EMA.


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    I’ll watch it on catch-up. Thanks for letting me know about it.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    I agree with SimonS1 above
    I saw it as a very superficial attempt from which I learned nothing.
    But then again we on this forum tend to take much more interest than do most people in these matters and so perhaps the program was of value and interest to many.

    This saga has a long way to go yet that may well warrant another Panorama program in the future.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    K1ngston
    Participant

    I agree with SimonS1 above

    I saw it as a very superficial attempt from which I learned nothing.

    But then again we on this forum tend to take much more interest than do most people in these matters and so perhaps the program was of value and interest to many.

    This saga has a long way to go yet that may well warrant another Panorama program in the future.

    I would agree totally with your synopsis cwoodward, that if you like was a teaser to the drama yet to be played out, but significantly did nothing to enhance his persona as someone who gives a damn! For me that would make interested parties even more determined to ensure proper recompense for what happened.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Haven’t seen the programme yet – but can some explain the numbers involved.

    According to wiki – the max has 5,000 orders and 387 deliveries. That’s 5,000 deposits and either leasing companies or airlines have paid close to $100 million per aircraft.

    Whilst T & C’s for each sale will be confidential, lawyers must have included into the contracts penalty payment for non conformance etc… After all the max isn’t the first Boeing to be grounded. Clearly deliveries have stopped, so completed aircraft are not being paid for.. What happens to the engine mfg’s, do they get paid?

    The number of employees (whether Boeing, aircrew or contractors down the supply chain) who cant work, the cancelled orders….

    Also where do Airbus fit into all of this. On the one hand they must be winning a few more orders & I am sure their production lines are running at full speed. However, I am sure Airbus will also be keen to see a solution, as there is likely to be a future confidence issue in any new aircraft they launch.

    The numbers must be huge, yet the share price has moved south, but hasn’t exactly slumped…

    Would love to hear some comments – even whether the Boeing shares represent good value…


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Boeing shares are being ‘shorted”in NY
    Performance last week was the worst since the second crash
    The BBC program wont have helped ether


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    The numbers must be huge, yet the share price has moved south, but hasn’t exactly slumped…

    Would love to hear some comments – even whether the Boeing shares represent good value…

    The share price has been reasonably flat since Dec 2017, though below a peak of $440 and up from a low of $350. It’s part of the Dow Jones Index but due to its size, has an undue influence on the DOW. I think it’s roughly every 1% move in Boeing equates to +-10% of the rise (or fall) in the DOW.

    Short interest in the stock is just under 1%, about the same as many of the constituents and a lot less than some others.
    The shares will still be bought, as they will overcome the problems, and long term represent good value, with a dividend yield of about 2.5%, so attractive to many.
    Personally i’d not buy them yet while the question of a criminal investigation hangs over them and the final compensation bill is as yet unknown. However much of this may already be in the share price. The other unknown is that the dividend may be cut. But I do think end of 2020 we may see a price of over $500, however I don’t yet have the courage to buy them.

    If you’re bullish on the stock, you could also buy a march, June or September 350/400 Call spread (buy the 350’s and sell the 400’s) for about 17 ($1,700 per contract) giving a maximum potential gain of $33 a share ($3,300 per contract) and that is attractive. But at your (and anyone else reading this) own risk. This is not advice but just a way it could be played.


    christopheL
    Participant

    Would all this be a pure question of money ? Quite deceptive 🙁


    canucklad
    Participant

    t’s part of the Dow Jones Index but due to its size, has an undue influence on the DOW. I think it’s roughly every 1% move in Boeing equates to +-10% of the rise (or fall) in the DOW.

    Just like RBS, it won’t be allowed to fail regardless of what added disclosures come to light further damaging the company .

    When similar problems dogged McDonnel Douglas guess who took advantage ?

    No one can take over Boeing !

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