[SimonRowberry]

Finally. You accuse me of not saying anything positive about TK.

I wrote this on here on 13.09.09, just over a year ago:

“The sad thing is that they could be a really good airline with some fairly minor changes. The service on board IS good, they do tend (in my experience) to be punctual and (generally) the cabin crew’s attitude is ok. However, the basic problem remains attitudes towards safety and the attitude towards customer responses in general (whether verbal like mine, or written like Hess’).”

Credit where credit is due.

[uskuhlmans]

You are really no fun. There is no room for any alternative evidence, nor are you willing to budge from a position that you are determined to hold. And you have no appreciation of the attempt to lighten up the attacks. I know it said “could” and any attempt to misquote you was folly as your original was on the same page. I suspect you claim the right to be annoyed on a rather regular basis.

I have yet to offer anything approaching a blind defense. There is no point at which I have said your experiences were not real or that your concerns were not valid. Nor have I attempted to deny that some of what you and others say might be correct.

What I have tried to do is to point out that millions of others have had very different experiences and that your, shall we say vigorous and constant criticism is not designed to create dialogue.

And no, you don’t have to defend yourself to me nor do you have to heed any of my comments. I was simply stating my reaction to the way in which complaints were heard and received over a 30 year career.

All I ask is that you reread the post above and identify changes in the language that might actually generate a productive conversation.

[SimonRowberry]

As I said above:

“I also do not need your patronising advice. Nor do I have to defend myself to you”

In the light of what you’ve said above, I don’t understand the purpose of your last post, apart from an admission of trollish behaviour. I also don’t care about your 30 years of experience with Swissair – a great airline. I wonder if you’d be quite so self-congratulatory and pompous if you’d spent 30 years with TK.

If you’d read my other posts re TK elsewhere (which you infer that you have), you will doubtless have noted that I have complemented the TK staff at BHX, who are excellent, Turkey and Turkish people in general, whom I find an extremely kind and courteous race, and you will also have noted that, in the context of these contrary observations, I find TK at IST a total enigma.

It is therefore both inaccurate and unfair to suggest that there is no room for alternative evidence in my views on TK, as I have credited them for the positive aspects of their service. My gripe is solely with their in-flight safety culture and with the attitude of the ground staff at IST. I have made that clear on a number of occasions in various threads. However, safety is an absolutely fundamental matter and my concerns in this area are overriding in terms of my view of TK. I have no need to justify that stance at all.

When people start posts about TK (which I demonstrably NEVER have), I respond by sharing my experience and giving my views. As others do on countless other Forum topics. I also give my views on other threads. Yours seem to have been solely TK-based. Mine are not.

You chose to start this thread, not me. You chose to criticise me and my views by name in the initial post. You then misquote me (and you make no defence for that in subsequent posts).

You imply that my attitude was inappropriate when complaining, by saying you’ve “heard” the way complaints have been made during your career. I have posted on another thread the details of how I complained and it most certainly not me who was being aggressive, it was the TK CIP Lounge staff. It was that attitude that I found totally unnecessary. Yet you feel that you can pompously judge me? Who the hell do you think you are?

Having attacked me in this fashion, you then have the audacity to suggest I temper my approach towards what I say? Sorry, mate. To quote Basil Fawlty. “You started it.”

Strangely, I only “claim the right to be annoyed” when people have an unwarranted and undeserved go at me or other posters. Again, funny that.

This is now getting terribly boring and is a waste of bandwidth.

[uskuhlmans]

You are right. Let’s agree to never mingle at cocktail parties.

[SimonRowberry]

At last. One thing we agree on! 😉

[gregd75]

Just picking up on Vintage Krugs comments about having more chances of dieing on Turkish than any other airline…

Of course i know it all depends on number of passengers flown/number of airmiles flown etc…

BUT

I think Air France has killed a lot more people than Turkish.

1. Brazil
2. Concorde
3. The airbus at the airshow

AND to add insult to injury, Air France seems to be experts at losing your bags.

Definitely worse that Turkish

[uskuhlmans]

Thanks for that. We are all biased based on experience, culture, peers and preferences. I understand that and acknowledge it in myself. Where I draw the line is when flat, all-encompassing statements are made that the poster assumes are universally acknowledged.

In my own case, I was once a great booster of American and had over 500,000 miles in AAdvantage. Then I had a string of really awful experiences that were badly mishandled when they tried to “fix” things. I now have switched to United and Star and avoid AA whenever possible. However, on the few occasions that I have had to deal with them, things have been just fine. Nonetheless, my bias against them continues and my statements about AA need to be measured against the totality of my experience–not just the really dreadful ones.

[PatJordan]

I enjoy reading and occasionally contribute to threads on this forum. As with sister site, seatplans and unlike skytrax there is no censorship here: all submissions are welcome.

However this particular thread is one of the most vitriolic I have read here. Nor have I seen personal attacks on individuals like those on VK & NTarrant by JavierS.

By all means disagree with opinions and debate viewpoints, but don’t degrade the forum by attacking individuals.

[SimonRowberry]

Hey, Janvier. What’s wrong with me? Why haven’t you singled me out as well? What I have I done right compared to them?

Jordan – nice one,amigo. See you again soon.

Cheers

Simon

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Javier

Play the ball, not the man, please.

Everyone else, don’t feed the troll.

Simon Rowberry, 2 wrongs don’t make a right, don’t demean yourself and make the troll look justified, rise above the obvious provocation and cheap shots.

[SimonRowberry]

Disgusted.

Agreed. Apologies and sound advice. Thanks.

Simon

[JonathanCohen09]

Javier,

where is all this vitriolic personal abuse coming from. I am a regular contributor to this forum which is absolutely not BA bias. there are those who support BA and those who are against BA. There are also many threads pro and post other airlines. what is wrong with that?

You say that you are a professional journalist? I would therefore expect a much higher standard of post from you that does not resort to the kind of vicious personal attack that you have launched here.

We, and that includes you, are all entitled to post our opinions on here as it is n open forum. We, and that also includes you, are absolutely not entitled to post personal attacks of any nature, particularly people who you do not know or have never met.

Simon and Nigel are friends of mine that I met through the forum and the poster ‘get togethers’. I have had robust debate with both of them on the forum but always without the need to attack them personally as you have done.

Please either stick to playing the ball, as suggested in a previous post or stop contributing.

To my other fellow contributors I would suggest that unless Javier behaves himself on the forum we do what we have done to others like him and just ignore his posts from now on.

I should probably have practised what I preach, but felt I had to say something.

Safe travels to you all.

Jonathan

PS Looking forward to trying BA, finally, to Tel Aviv on Thursday. I will report in full how I get on for those of you who might be interested.

[uskuhlmans]

I began this discussion because I perceived that there were unfair and exceptionally harsh statements being made about TK, an airline that I found to be a pleasure to fly. It has now devolved into a nasty bunch of exchanges that are certainly not worthy of the term discussion.

For the record, again, this is not a post sponsored by Turkish and I doubt that they even are aware of its existence–best for them. My opening comment was not meant as an insult but rather as an observation that there seemed to be a group that was “ganging up” on TK and I wanted to point that out as well as register a very different opinion. I had no idea that the topic–and participants–would be so volatile. For that lack of foresight, I apologize to all.

There is no need for the kind of attacks and accusations that have proliferated and it is my wish that, as the instigator, I can also be the closer. I mean, really, we are talking about airline service here. What might have resulted if the subject had been something that really mattered?

[Senator]

Dear all,

I read this thread in interest and I would like to split my response in two; one about the Right Hon Simon R and one regarding TK.

Simon is one of the few people in this forum who do not have the spine of a GummyBear. He belongs to a very limited list who is not hiding behind a “dummy” name. For business reasons, I can’t reveal my real identity but I applaud Simon for stepping forward with a real identity. I my experience, Simon brings both positive and negative experience to this forum. To single our Simon and “Hess” as antagonists seem very odd to me.

Now, back to TK. I’ve had 10 segments on TK to IST, THR and RUH over the last year. Their F&B is second to OS, aircrafts are clean and comfortable. However, the simplest safety measures are not followed. On a night flight from RUH to IST I was in row 4, and woke up to the smell of cigarette smoke. I went forward to the washroom, and it was clear it was coming from this space. I contacted the Purser, and she shrugged it off “what shall I do”? Perhaps check if someone left something burning? The same occurred a few months later on TP from Dakar to LIS, and I had a captain plus staff with flashlights searching through the rubbish etc.

In addition, I have seen no interest in ensuring belts are on, tables are up, glasses are collected, bags put in place. None of these issues I have experienced on any other airlines.

Yes, TK has a nice onboard product. However, I have stopped using them for the same reasons listed by others. I just don’t feel they take the basic safety precautions seriously.

[SimonRowberry]

Senator

Thanks for your support as ever, Senator. Also, thanks for the private advice you have given me lately regarding a trip to the Balkans.

It is people likenyou who make this Forum so valuable.

Thanks again.

Simon

[Author]

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