[Alasdair]

All I meant was there will be a cramped 7 across premium seating on the 787 compared to other airline offerings of 4 or 6 across. Also on the 380 the same cramped seating 2-4-2 instead of a more competitive 2-2-2 even. What is the appeal of these two new BA offerings?

[millionsofmiles]

Regarding fleet age of LH:
The high age resuts from the 737s almost solely through these…and replacement is ordered in form of A320s and 320neos.

The longhaul fleet is rather new, the 747-400 are phased out by new 747-8 and A380, 10 are in operation.
Delays with the A380? seems for BA only….lol. There are 100+ in operation, just BA behaves likes doing a virginal tryout…ridiculous.

[rferguson]

Hey all, just to pick up on the issues of the cabin conditions in many of the BA long haul fleet.

Firstly, I offer no excuses or defenses. Having to work on some of these aircraft it can be downright embarrassing. Especially on the non-refurbished 767’s and the oldest 747’s.

Thankfully though, the leadership team are taking note of this issue and have put in mechanisms to improve interior maitenence. The ‘Inflight Customer Experience’ head is particularly passionate about this.

Anyway, here are a few of the reasons for the state of some of the aircraft.

First and foremost of course is cost. If the plan that was on paper ten years ago had happened the 767’s would have been in the big airplane graveyard a few years ago now, alongside some of the older 747’s. In their place shiny new 787’s and A380’s would have been flying for some time now. As most of us know, there were massive delivery delays to both the A380 and 787 which meant the older aircraft had to be kept in service. At the time BA realised this (a few years ago) it was when the airline was in a bit of a pickle financially and industrially. Any non-fuel expenditure was pretty much ruled out. A little further on, and BA is doing ok. Yet competition remains fierce and non-fuel costs have to be maintained. Any expenditure has to have a guaranteed return. Thus, the decision was taken to not refurbish the older 747’s that will soon be on their way out. 18 of the oldest 777-200’s which have a long life ahead of them would be fully refurbished in all classes. In fact BA was not prepared to pay themselves to refurbish the 767’s either as even with the 787 delivery delays the cost could not be justified. However, BA struck a deal with Boeing who would stump up for the 767 refurbishment of seven long haul aircraft in part-compensation for the 787 delivery delays.

Secondly (and this is my personal beef) is the dreadful cleaning that the aircraft receive in London. An old aircraft that has not been refurbished does not mean it cannot be a spotlessly clean one. Yet for some reason when the crew board the aircraft (even when the aircraft has been on the ground overnight) cleaning just is not up to scratch. Crumbs in seat creases, marks on sidewalls not cleaned, tray tables not cleaned. This just isn’t on. I know in the west we operate in a difference environment. The cleaning is contracted and for a full jumbo we get five or six demotivated primarily immigrant workers who amble on and go through the motions. When we land in the far east or similar where labour is much cheaper and discipline a lot more part of the culture we get an army of thirty of forty cleaners who leave that aircraft looking immaculate after 45 minutes.

Finally, there are interior issues that need engineering attention. Say a broken armrest, or a seat pocket hanging off the seat or a unserviceable toilet. These are all tasks undertaken by the aircraft engineers. But unfortunately, the engineers are needed elsewhere. The newer fleet that we should have had, we don’t. So our older aircraft that are still in service require more mechanical attention with some of them requiring in depth checks which shouldn’t have been necessary as they should have flown the nest by now. So the time that engineering should have free to dedicate to interior issues is being spent of the mechanical ones. And with aircraft in for more indepth checks (sometimes for days), it means that those flying with cabin defects are being kept flying.

Again, not offering excuses. But though it might be an interesting insight.

[esselle]

Hello rFerguson

Thanks for your (as usual) interesting post.

On the cleaning point, is it not down to the same problem we have discussed on another thread related to the new lounge catering? The decision on who to contract to is taken by a buying department, and ultimately any ambition relating to quality or delivering a great customer experience takes a back seat.

Given that cost management is the focus from the very top of the organisation, it is inevitable, sadly.

[rferguson]

Hi Esselle.

BA’s new internal motto is ‘to put the customer at the heart’ of the business.

Unfortunately, few of us that work for BA really believe that this is BA’s priority with the main modus operandi seemingly ‘get as much as possible for as little as possible’.

The sad fact is, BA react only to numbers. On the subject of the lounge catering. Or the cleaning. They will no doubt have some statistical accounting model. Yes, based on this or that survey X% of passengers will no longer fly us because of say cleaning or lounge catering. This will cost us £XXp.a. However, with the cost savings generated by the reduction we will still be saving £YY per annum.

Unfortunately, til the tipping point is reversed – until passengers vocally say they will not tolerate the downgraded product nothing will happen.

I really don’t believe those at the top of the BA chain really know the reality sometimes. They rely on the spin fed upwards. Like the ‘fantastic’ new catering. Which is why the BEST thing any passenger visiting one of our lounges with empty food counters or boarding an aircraft to find a filthy aircraft is to TAKE A PHOTO and send it to those further up the chain at BA.

[millionsofmiles]

@ rferguson:

Exactly. The question how many customers one loses due to detoriorating standards of quality is FINALLY just an Excel model.

And BA seems to live according to that model. Until it tips over.

[Guest_Poster]

rferguson – 11/06/2013 11:58 GMT

Great post. it is a management decision to allow cabins to get into this state. It may or may not be a good decision, but if the budget is available, even 25 year old frames can look new.

[sparkyflier]

A former colleague of mine once flew to Frankfurt from LHR on Lufthansa.He commented on the “comfy, spacious, clean, new aircraft”. I probed him on what type it was, and it was the A300-600, weeks before its . . . . .retirement.

Which just goes to show what Guest Poster mentioned above is very true indeed!

[Bullfrog]

John Harper
x2 .. I’ll chip in with an extra subscription next year.

Guest_Porter
x2

[rferguson]

@ Scott72 – totally agree. And this forum represents the likes of ‘Business Class’ folk lol. I think i’ll go back to working in economy from now on.

Thread – BA’s double celebration. 1.5 pages – the topic. 2.5 pages – bickering. Really disappointing.

[JohnHarper]

Guest_Poster – 12/06/2013 19:43 GMT

+1

Of course there are BA crew members who are suited by Krug’s pro-BA agenda promoting the company they work for and the poor products it offers.

My comment is not intended to reflect on the professionalism of BA crew, just the poor products they have to work with.

[rferguson]

@Guest_poster.
I do not believe it is my place to ask any individual to behave. I think that would be the role of a moderator.

If someone took a direct shot at myself, then maybe. But to be honest when I see the BS starting up in the threads my eyes just scan through until I see one with something related to business travel that interests me.

I have my own opinions on some of the users on this site. I’ve been around long enough to see the modus operandi of many.

I don’t make it my place to read the nitty gritty of the pot shots to-and-fro by forum users. It does not interest me. I don’t know who started it. I don’t know who said what on some previous thread they allude to. I stay out. I’m on here to contribute to the discussion of Business Travel. As many on here are based in the UK and have an interest in the goings on within BA I try and add a little where I can. I am not interested in putting the kids on the naughty step. Sorry. I get to do that enough at home. This site is meant to be a bit of an escape for me, that’s all. I don’t take it all that seriously.

@BAcrew1 look forward to seeing you!

[Andrew66]

Rferguson +1 ( I assume this is the most original way to reply ??)
I actually despair at some of the stuff I read on here , I wonder if these are the business leaders that are suppose to be driving Britain out of the economic problems ?
The only post I’ve read on here that has any integrity is the one by yourself on page 2 with your analysis of the problems and disappointments you endure on a daily basis , a very fair and well balanced account of what the situation is . I hope everything goes well for you with your 787 and I’m sure with your professional attitude both you and your passengers will have enjoyable flights .
We all have our opinions and fly with what suits us best , I have my preferences , but just because I choose a particular airline doesn’t mean I think it’s the very best and everything else is crap therefore !
There are certain things I don’t like or think are very good but I’m not going to bang on all day running something down I’m not that interested in or wouldn’t choose .
Anyway , I find your contributions helpful and informative and that’s what I thought or expected this forum to be about , not all these one line petty sniping posts .
Finally I prefer to go about everyday life in a positive way and try to be optimistic , perhaps that’s why I find some of the really negative stuff on here so disturbing or maybe someone could point out where that little perfect world is ?

[IanFromHKG]

(rferguson, bacrew 1 and other BA crew, please feel free to skip the next two paras and jump into para 3!)

VK is interesting some of the time and annoying a lot of the time. His anti-BASSA rants are wearisome, his pro-Willie stance at times difficult to understand, and his determination to say that NCW is the best option out there completely unfathomable. His willingness to repost insults others throw at him is extraordinary.

The constant attacks against him, however, are beyond annoying, wearisome, difficult to understand, unfathomable and extraordinary. I left the forum for a while because of the bickering. I recently came back, and tried to post sensible, well thought-out posts, on topic, in the hope we could make this forum work again. However, again we are being dragged into all this unnecessary bitching. And yes, I know I am joining in the off-topic element, but really only to ask if people could desist. Please?

I am not a BA fan. Their hard product is seriously dated. There are some terrible crew, there are some fantastic crew. With very few exceptions, the crew members who post here make some of the most valuable contributions to this forum (although seeing what goes on here, I am hardly surprised if they get cynical about the business passengers they serve). However, I would like to see them, and other sensible contributors, continue to participate in this forum. I think that is only going to happen if people start behaving a little more sensibly.

I would also love to see them on a flight. If any BA crew member (or an other contributor, for that matter) is serving on BA10 on 22 June or BA9 on 23 June, come and say Hi – I will be in 62K (unless my CX waitlisted flights come through!)

[Henkel.Trocken]

I’ll say only a little. I was attacked in this forum from almost the word go by VK, at first I ignored it then I retaliated gently. Things got to a point where I left the forum for a while. When I returned I decided I would not be bullied by Krug or his handles and I won’t be. I also won’t read his nonsense without challenging it. I’m delighted that others are of like mind. The forum bully is now being held to account and shown up for what he is.

If people don’t like it they don’t need to read the posts. Whinging about it will not from my point of view change anything. I did offer to leave the forum a while back and the groundswell of opinion was that people wanted me to stay and so I have and will.

Perhaps Krug would like to make the same offer?

I thought not.

[Author]

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