[Anonymous]

[Potakas]

So far BA has received the most of its new aircraft (except the A380s and B787s) ,they still have three remaining orders for A320s and another three orders for the remaining 777-300ER.

Recently BA launched its new WT+ and WT cabin, its CW product is one of the best (if not the best) and with the New First i think that BA’s World package is above the average.

I would like here to mention that the new WT+ and WT product will be fitted on new deliveries of the B777-300ER aircraft, as well as future B787s and A380s. They will also be retrofitted on 18 of BA’s existing B777-200s (those fitted with the old, non-AVOD ‘GMIS’ IFE systems) BUT NOT on the remaining B777-200 fleet and its B747 fleet but instead will be “refreshed”. I have not idea what is going to happen with the B767s (longhaul configuration) which are planned to stop operations by the end of the 2016!!!.

So far so good and i believe that the most important is that BA seems to have a plan in what they want to offer us.

My concern is about the European flights, there is a mess with all those different variants of A320s A319s , you don’t know how the CE cabin configuration will be, some of them are very old, and as i have admit on other topics i can understand that BA’s fleet is extremely big but this thing on the CE cabin happens because of bad strategic or ” I don’t know what i want to offer” (or maybe, what my passengers want).

On the LCY service BA changed all of its fleet with Embraers which is excellent and has also started the innovative service LCY-JFK with the A318s.

On the B737s and the 767s most of the seats have scratches, the interior is very old, many times the aircraft are very dirty (on my last CE trip i had a chewing gum on my trouser) and for sure in generally this is not a Premium’s Airline product. On the latest official presentation that VK posted

(http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/69/69499/01_ID_2010_Full_presentations.pdf ) , there is no plan for them to change for the next 2-3 years.

The fleet orders that BA has made, i think are the best as they will take both A380s and 787s, which are the planes that everyone would like to fly.

Fleet Facts (from Wikipedia):

Airbus A318, 2 aircraft, 32 passengers (0/32/0/0)

Airbus A319, 33 aircraft, up to 132 passengers (varies in 2 class configuration)

Airbus A320-200 41 aircraft, 3 orders left from which BA can take any member of the A320 family, maybe for LCY’s transatlantic expansion,also for the LCY’s expansion are available A320 family’s orders pending from Iberia , up to 162 passengers (varies in 2 class configuration)

Airbus A321-200, 11 aircraft, up to 188 passengers (varies in 2 class configuration)

Airbus A380-800, 0 aircraft , 12 on order-7 options , capacity-cabins TBA , delivery schedule is : 4 aircraft 2013-2014, 3 aircraft 2014-2015, 3 aircraft 2015-2016, 2 aircraft 2016-2017. Although there are rumours that one will be ready or will get paint on BA’s colours for London 2012 Olympic Games.

Boeing 737-400, 19 aircraft, up to 147 passengers (varies in 2 class configuration)

Boeing 747-400 , 57 aircraft, 329 passengers (14/52/36/227)

291 passengers (14/70/30/177)

Boeing 767-300ER, 21 aircraft, Shorthaul up to 252 passengers (varies in 2 class configuration)

Longhaul 189 passengers (0/24/24/141)

Boeing 777-200, 3 aircraft, 216 passengers (17/48/24/127)

Boeing 777-200ER, 43 aircraft , 229 passengers (14/48/40/127)
286 (0/48/24/214)

Boeing 777-300ER, 3 aircraft, 3 orders left, 297 passengers (14/56/44/183)

Boeing 787-8, 0 aircraft, 8 on order, 183 passengers (0/42/51/90)

Boeing 787-9, 0 aircraft, 16 on order , capacity TBA

Delivery schedule for the 787s is: 4 aircraft 2012-2013, 4 aircraft 2013-2014, 10 aircraft 2015-2016, 6 aircraft 2016-2017.

I don’t know if BA spent money for T5’s construction (i found that the project was funded only by BAA) , but they surely spent a lot for their fabulous lounges and they are spending for the Galleries project worldwide.They are now spending on the WT+,WT and New First but nothing seems to happening on the ET,CE products, i am not talking about miracles or something imaginary but at least they should remove all those damaged seats and to clean those aircraft (or if you prefer to refresh those aircraft). Also on my last two flights (4 hour each) i didn’t have any IFE (i am talking about a movie).

BA has the opportunity with the excellent T5 to feed its long-haul flights and in order this to happen has to offer something better on its European network.

After Olympic Air’s Business Gold product and Iberia’s Business Club now also BMI offers a better Business cabin with 2-2 configuration which is the proper. I think it’s BA’s turn now to give us a better product on the medium-haul network. I would like to say that on their intercontinental service BA seems to be really premium (probably it is its number one priority because of the profits) but on the intracontinental services the product is bellow average and i think in some cases it is not even acceptable.

Regards,

Potakas

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“I would like to say that on their intercontinental service BA seems to be really premium (probably it is its number one priority because of the profits) but on the intracontinental services the product is below average and i think in some cases it is not even acceptable.”

I could not agree more with you.

Seat types on CE

2 x 2, extra width (expanded/middle seat free)
2 x 2, standard Y, middle seat free
2 x 2, 767, no middle seat (AC, JK)
2 x 2, 767, small middle space, middle pair

As I have said before, I don’t think BA’s heart is in short haul, they see it as an inconvenient part of their route network, but cannot get rid as it feeds long haul, which I agree they do very well.

There used to be an accounting situation years ago, where the shorthaul segment ‘earned’ very little of the revenue for the part it played in getting the passenger onto the long haul flight, don’t know if that is still the case.

[Potakas]

DisgustedofSwieqi,

That’s what i was saying exactly, they have to get advance of T5 in order to feed better their long-haul flights.

What bother’s me with CE is that there is not consistency for now, perhaps if they remove CE on some short routes i will understand it. My opinion is that they should not remove CE from any route if they want to keep the slogan “Upgrade to British Airways”, (errrr, Upgrade to Economy??) and if they want to reduce operating costs they should stop flying those old 767s, not to cut products..

[VintageKrug]

I think it should be recognised that CE has been *extremely* consistent for over 15 years.

It is only with the introduction of the new Embraer fleet from LCY and the most recent delivery of a very few airbuses during late 2009/early 2010 that the new “non converter seating” has widened the field somewhat. Or narrowed the field, I suppose….

It would absolutely be better If there was total consistency, but products do evolve and unfortunately in airline terms such evolutions take some time.

The original plan, as evidenced by the previous (but consistently applied!) “Snug Europe” configuration (which was reversed), was to not convert the seats.

Please be very clear that there is a significant threat of the withdrawal of CE on many routes, and a discussion about consistency is a distraction from the real issue which is whether CE will survive on all shorthaul routes at all.

I would argue consistency is essential to maintain the product and keep people buying it, and I think it is wrong for this inconsistency to pervade on the Heathrow fleet. Gatwick is back to all 737s now, and the Embraer product exLCY is on the shortest routes where convenience trumps almost any other consideration, so there is at least “consistency” within those fleets, it’s only a small proportion of LHR flights which have this issue, though this will become more prevalent.

ON the matter of the 767s, they are most certainly not knackered airframes, or that ineffient to run as most of the costs are already depreciated.

They are simply very tatty inside BUT there is strong suggestion these planes will be re-configured at Boeing’s expense as longhaul aircraft, so unlikely to be leaving the fleet anytime soon, and but also not worth investing in a cosmetic makeover inside when what is needed is a more fundamental re-jig, perhaps including winglets if BA’s RR powered airframes can get approval for such a modification.

The value in CE remains in the multiple peak out-and-back schedules, permitting a flexible schedule (often in concert with other oneworld partners such as Iberia and Finnair), priority check-in, lounges pre-flight, priority boarding (not applied consistently at outstations, but meant to be!), proper food and a free bar (including champagne) on board, and additional baggage and mileage/TP allocation within BAEC.

The convertible seat is part of that, and is important to many, but on short sectors is simply not the make or break issue many would have it be (though is more of an issue for 2+ hours).

[PsyDtoBe]

Hi guys,

I am wondering if BA is having their new cabin on SIN-SYD route, can anyone advice me on this? because I am about to book it and my choices are either BA/QF (BA new cabin or QF A380) or SQ. Thanks!

[Potakas]

Hi PsyDtoBe,
I checked which aircraft was used on this route since the start of December, the 777s that have been used on this route are only 200s (so do not expect new WT+, WT cabin)
and specifically those:

G-YMMG,G-YMMH,G-YMMI,G-YMMJ ,G-YMMK ,G-YMML, G-YMMN ,G-YMMP. From the above only the G-YMMK has been fitted with New First and is in 12F/48J/32W/127Y configuration.

If you are going for the New First, I would suggest you to call You First for more details in order to be sure and ask if it’s anything on their schedule according to NF.

Regards,

Potakas

[Senator]

Hi,

I guess perhaps VK or someone else with good BA knowledge could offer an answer to the following question:

BA is opening a new route LCY-ARN operating an E170 aircraft on the route. The onboard product includes Club Europe, and it is not called “Business” which I have seen on other routes. I was wondering if BA is planning to use the 2-2 seating in CE, or if they will follow the LH policy and leave one seat free?

What is the general “policy” exLCY on these smaller aircrafts?

[VintageKrug]

I don’t know the answer to your specific question, but I think it might be better started as a separate thread.

[Travellator]

Very detailed opinions all.

Copiedd below latest press release re NEW 747’s surely this is 747’s with the new first – does this imply that all LHR/HKG will have the new first on all its flights soon.

On the product front, BA’s new fleet of B747 aircraft with the latest version of the first class cabin will debut in Hong Kong early next year, said McQuillan

[Barny6969]

I’m flying to cancun on 5 th Jan from lgw
Have the lgw fleet 777 had the new wt+ seat fitted?..

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Barny

This is what BA.com says

“The new World Traveller Plus experience is available right now on the latest addition to our fleet, the state-of-the-art Boeing 777-300ER, operating on selected flights to and from Mumbai, Chicago, Delhi and Dubai.

Two more fully fitted brand-new 777-300ERs will enter service by the end of 2010, with further additions to the fleet scheduled throughout 2011 and 2012.”

Looks like the answer is ‘no.

[Potakas]

OK it is ”official” now,

BA’s representative on another forum announced that BA is making a ignificant investment in refreshing the cabin interior of 14 of their 21 767 aircraft , the remaining 7 will be removed from service in due course. ”Work is expected to commence in August 2011 and we are aiming for completion by the end of 2012. ”

Regards

[AdrianHenryAsia]

Does anyone know when BA expect to take delivery of the remaining 777-300’s which they have on order?

[Potakas]

Oct 11, Dec 11 and Feb 12

Source,

http://jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_boeing_b777srs.htm

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