[FDOS_UK]

dutchyankee – 10/06/2016 10:32 BST

I’m about to drop to bronze, after years of silver and BA is rapidly becoming an irrelevance.

I only have 10k Avios left and I’ll use those for a reward saver, at some stage.

The future is orange. Well the past few years have been, too.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ FDOS_UK – 10/06/2016 10:41 BST

If it’s not just the future is orange but the past few years have been too, why the lack of commentary on EZY and the complete obsession with things red, white and blue? There is something about gnawing on a well worn bone about your not (ahem) infrequent postings about BA.

I have some very clear issues with BA’s senior management team, the “Fortress Heathrow” mindset and the price gauging that IAG has attempted (and to which, in common with many others, I have responded by changing my travel patterns) but I do still use them intra-Europe and they are at least as acceptable as EZY in my experience. But, situated in NW London, I am in a different position to you as you are NW England-based and I do not need to transit through either LHR or LGW.

[FDOS_UK]

AnthonyDunn – 10/06/2016 11:00 BST

easyJet is boring, nothing much to talk about, because they just do a competent job and deliver what they sell. You might have noticed that I do criticise the company when it does something bad.

[lesmclaren]

I would see the move to “return catering” as the first stage to BOB as it will allow for cancellation of any existing remote [i.e. beyond home base] BA catering contracts which I guess have some time limits from giving notice to ending.
On that basis and estimating a max 3 month notice period to the remote location caterers then my money is on BOB starting around September!
We shall see …………..!

[MarcusGB]

Could this lead to people bringing their Airport branded food onto BA?
How embarrassing that would be to see…

I am not sure if there is a policy on this with various Airlines, anyone aware?

[JohnHarper]

Interesting piece of price comparison further up the thread.

I wondered if comparing BA to carriers who probably have a lower cost base was fair so I ran through a comparison with Lufthansa and Air France for two Wednesdays (don’t know whether they are the same ones obviously) to Athens and Istanbul from London to see what happened. I took the cheapest economy fare in both cases including a checked bag.

Lufthansa

Athens £219
Istanbul £165

Air France

Athens £231
Istanbul £207

Now admittedly they will be pricing more competitively or so we might think to attract business but their base cost is no doubt similar to if not higher than BA.

But then if you look at what they are charging from their main bases it’s equally interesting:

Lufthansa from Frankfurt

Athens £192
Istanbul £116

Air France from CDG

Athens £165
Istanbul £186

So BA’s pricing is really out of sync with reality and at the same time they are diminishing what they provide for the money with no hope of the reductions bringing costs in to line. It’s not the way to do business if you want a long term future.

I expect a BA apologist will be along in a minute.

[EU_Flyer]

FDOS_UK – 10/06/2016 10:36 BST

“You might be surprised, Simon. Although it seems irrational, small things like this can act as tipping points for mass perception and create major problems for companies”.

Totally agree!

Qantas cut hot meals in economy during peak periods (when they had a monopoly in the full service market in Australia) and people revolted and started moving to cheaper competitors like Virgin Blue and Jetstar. QF quickly restored hot meals after that, even on 1 hour flights from SYD – MEL in peak periods and they now use it as a marketing tool against their competitors.

On the LHR – Istanbul, if BA cut the hot meals, Turkish Airlines (with their flying chefs and full high quality meals on even short 1 hour flights) will immediately provide a value proposition BA can’t match. The perception will be that TK are full service (full tray with hot meal, salad and desert) where BA give me a half frozen wrap. Same goes for Aegean to Athens where they still provide hot meals on flights over 2 hours (although their catering isn’t that great).

[AnthonyDunn]

@ Alex_Fly – 10/06/2016 14:12 BST

Yes, I had the delightful QF Y marketing tool meal experience recently BNE-SYD and was amused when the FA smiled and told me that “I think it is potato with the chicken…” The green beans were edible whilst the “Smash” and the rest were revolting, possibly one of the worst “meals” I’ve ever attempted. Judging by the quantities of gloop that was returned, I was not alone in my view. Personally, I’d have preferred the JQ BoB alternative.

My view is that you either do something properly or you just don’t bother. In which case, you reduce your pricing accordingly, leaving it up to passengers to bring their own onboard.

[Londonian]

Does anybody know when this new policy is starting? I am flying to Athens next week in Y and am interested to know whether I’ll still get a hot meal…

[SimonS1]

Well personally I don’t have skin in the game, and to be honest it’s of no interest to me whether BA serve ‘gristle in gravy’ or ‘crap in a wrap’ on short haul routes. I’d be surprised if it made much difference but then again maybe people really will desert the airline in droves at the thought of a cold meal.

There are people on here willing to take either side of the debate, fairly predictable in advance I think who they would be, but both opinions equally valid.

Time will tell whether BA’s model will stand the test of time, all you can say is that for the present time passenger numbers and profits are holding up well. The vast majority of city analysts have IAG as a buy or overweight and as an investor I would ascribe a higher value to that than the opinions of the usual suspects (for or against) on here. I think the ratings agencies all have a positive outlook. It doesn’t seem the day of doom is around the corner but who knows.

[canucklad]

BA is a successful airline, Ryanair is an even more successful airline.
If you’re competitively minded, you need to choose the right game to play

The decision makers at BA are clearly competitive minded ….

[MrMichael]

The purchasing and serving of food from out stations is a huge and expensive challenge for Airlines. Countries where hygiene practices are not the standard we might expect, insurance, inspecting practices all add up to massive cost and logistical issues. An outbreak of food poisoning in the travel sector has huge impact on reputation (the hotel/airline/shipping line, not the supplier) so having full control of ones supply chain is a huge cost and risk reduction in itself.

Personally I am not that bothered about onboard catering other than a coffee or 2. From London I rather enjoy an M&S sandwich or salad and in Madrid the butcher next to my office packs me a very nice little Chorizo and Serrano ham platter and some fresh bread from the bakers two doors down. If I want a crappy wrap, I like to choose what’s in it!

Regarding flight prices, the snapshots above are easy to find, as is the opposite. BA sets prices to maximise its margin, thus prices go up as the plane fills, just as EZY and Ryanair do. The advantage BA has is that a lot of its euro traffic is connecting on to long haul in London, and thus its opening fares are likely to be higher as it starts with a higher load factor than for instance EZY that is only doing point to point.

How about this though for nutcase economics from BA and the travel service I am bound to use:- Occasionally a Club Europe fare is cheaper than an economy ticket, that seems odd enough, but still my travel service will not book it but will pay more for an economy ticket because the rules say I have to fly economy for any flight under 5 hours. I take the view (public sector) I should take the most economic fare, but the rules to “ensure” that happens frustratingly are that economy should be booked. I find the whole thing absolutely bizarre, it just proves that in the public sector there are too many people making up policy’s and procedures to ensure value for money ( it really is a whole industry called procurement) that is there simply to police that rules are followed and totally miss the point that common sense can often save money.

[FDOS_UK]

“It doesn’t seem the day of doom is around the corner but who knows.”

If I’ve learned anything about the airline business, it is the speed with which an airline can move from profit to loss to end of business.

Admittedly, it’s not driven by whether they provide a meal or a wrap in Y, but history shows it is a very volatile sector.

Travel is one of the the first sectors impacted, when recession strikes.

This comment is not aimed specifically at BA, but just a general comment on the sector from 30 odd years of observation.

[canucklad]

Hi MrMichael
It’s not just the public sector that has bizarre and frustrating rules.
A top class,no traveling clown in our finance department invoked the same Y rule with us. Even though our travel department had secured cheap business class crates.
To this day, and by the very nature of some of my colleagues work schedule,cancelling and re-booking flights is the norm. Thus negating the original savings on the lowest available.

Personally,what I find bonkers is the green team economics. Most of my travel is done by train. An option that is more expensive at point of purchase than flying. But when you add in the additional cost of my time, extra nights in hotels and the price increases 3 to fourfold ,but our financial tree huggers only see the plane as a devil cost.

I’d rather save the polar bears by sitting my arse on a cheap flight, and donate the savings made by not taking the train to WWF etc.

[canucklad]

Now back to Bob and BA…
Coincidentally the airline was the subject of two very different conversations, one with a work colleague, the other with my mate.
Although the specific subject matter was different,the conclusion was the same.

My colleague bemoaned the fact that BA apparently no longer supply wine on domestic flights . And after a particularly stressful day in London questioned their loyalty and considered next time taking advantage of Virgins East Coast first class executive package.
Secondly,my mate ,who had explained weeks ago that he was treating his wife to a weekend break in the big smoke,went on to say that he had booked BA because he wanted to do”something special” and not just “on the cheap” . …….You don’t need me to tell you the conversation we had on Monday night!!!

Save to say, BA won’t be his airline of choice next time.

[Author]

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