[NTarrant]

I wondered how long it would be before we got Mark Roberts anti-BA diatribe, whipped up by his mate. “BA will never recover” so what about Lufthansa? The pilots are striking, does that mean the reputation of LH will never recover? Oh no of course not as I think LH is one of Mark Roberts favorite airlines.

If you read through most of the comments on this and other threads related to the BA strike you will read that in most cases it is not the crew people detest, it is Unite. The union that has an inability to represent its members properly and lets face it the whole affair is political and the cabin crew are the pawns in the game.

[SamPatr]

My sisters friend who works as BA cabin crew and her buddy went to Malidives this year. They paid a total of £320 each for a week in a five star hotel all inclusive.
My husband and I went to Maldives last year for our dream holiday. It took us two years to save up and we paid over £1000 each for a week in a three star half board.
If their life is too hard I will swap!

[MarcusUK]

Then if Mr NTarrent takes the time to read all the threads, the language is derogatory, patronising, & specific to the members of Unite, who ARE the cabin crew you so praise.
Some comments promote hatred, political be-littling, & you might find is investigated for content on BT (YET AGAIN!), breach the law in facilitating discriminatory comments, that preach, inept & incapable of sensible discussion. Clearly they are not very business like in their occupations by their behaviour, & angy bitter individuals!
No wonder BT has had so many complaints about such people on here to their office!
BT seem to be impotent at the record they create in allowing these comments expressing such hate for others, or Organisations made up of the people, they hypocritically want to fly them.

As per usual, these are people who fly few other Airlines, in limited areas of the world, Bitchy & bitter in how & what they write. Completely unable to debate a subject, in a professional let alone a business like manner.
Sad, unhappy, & inadequate in their capability of independent perspectives, it shows clearly in their words. They reveal more of themselves than anything to do with the subject.

I have no favourites in terms of Airlines, but merely those with consistency, those managed well, safely, With years of stable services, trusted & respected.
B A Have the worst record of Mis- Management disasters, this being just the latest. So they are not, nor will be, as many others are now concluding around the world, one of them.

[VintageKrug]

British Airways’ reputation will recover; indeed many posters here clearly support the strong leadership of Willie Walsh necessary to cut Unite down to size and restore sanity to remuneration in the round.

I think it is very sad that Union leaders have led their members to lose this staff travel perk, but lose it they will, and this is further evidence of how striking simply doesn’t work.

People will continue to value the excellent fully flat beds in Club World, the regular, direct flights at convenient times, the superb lounges both at LHR (where there are no less than eight) and most importantly consistent branded lounges abroad, as well as innovative services such as direct flight between New York JFK and London’s City Airport.

British Airways. Since 1924.

[NTarrant]

Mark I do feel that in your second paragraph you actually describe yourself in the way you write about BA. Yes I do fly on other airlines occasionally but they are not a match for BA. The points VK make are highlights as to why I prefer BA over other substandard service.

Your problem is that you don’t fly BA and listen to third and forth hand information and speculation. I would suggest that you read your posting again, you use words to describe other posters which actually describes your tone and style. I wouldn’t make comments against any airlines or other operators I don’t use and nor should you.

[CharlesRhona]

I suspect that Unite’s argument that travel perks were “custom and practice” as opposed to a perk will not stand up in court. The company I worked for changed it’s pension scheme rules 3 years ago and restricted pension increases to the lower of RPI or 2.5%. Under the previous scheme rules increases were at the employer’s discretion and the Scheme Trustees argued that as past increases had been granted at RPI for over 20 years “custom and practice” applied and the company could not restrict increases to a maximum of 2.5%. The Trustees took legal advice from a major city law firm specialising in pensions and the advice was that a “custom and practice” claim would not stand up in court.

[batraveller2]

MarkRoberts comment adds very little to the thread.

There are many supporting BA and Willie Walsh (within the UK and abroad) and who recognise that the unions need to be addressed, and who appreciate the quality of BA’s in flight product and lounges etc. I still fly long haul BA 6 to 8 times a year to America and use them domestically, and they would still be my first choice by a long way.

[RedFlyer]

SamPatr – Would you be as willing to swap if there was a chance you wouldn’t get on your flights? A good perk yes but not without it’s con’s.

CharlesRhona – You are right it wouldn’t stand up in court. However did your company use the changes to the pension scheme as a threat against going on strike?

[CharlesRhona]

Redflyer: The company had few union members and any strike would have been a token gesture only. The proposed changes actually improved the scheme by guaranteeing the lesser of RPI or 2.5% as opposed to the company previously having discretion only to grant increases. The company stated that they would retain discretion for increases where RPI exceeded 2.5% but each year since the new scheme came into being and where RPI was greater than 2.5% they have refused to provide a discretionary increase on top of the 2.5%. Of course the company’s argument has been that under the previous scheme rules they might not have granted an award at all and that we are actually better off. This despite them providing a RPI increase each year for at least the last 20 years.

[markymark]

Why do people keep comparing BA with low-cost airlines, BA is a full frills airline.

Perhaps BA crew earn more than VS, what has not been mentioned is that VS crew get their allowances cash in hand, so off course it has not been included in the salary.

You should compare BA to LH, AF or IB then you will see that BA crew don’t have the best pay nor terms and conditions after all.

The public is so ill informed as to how much crew earn and as to why they are striking.

A friend of mine said to me a couple of days ago and she was totally right:

“At the end of the day, the British public will get the airline they deserve!”

[VintageKrug]

Willie Walsh salary is competitive with others at his level. He should not be criticised for making a success of his life, and through hard work being rewarded at an appropriate level.

I can’t be bothered to check his salary details in my Annual Report now, but in salary terms he earns nothing like £750,000.

Crew are not being asked to take a pay cut; it was Unite which proposed a pay cut as the solution.

When I last chatted to him, he mentioned he had just returned from a holiday with his family. This came up as I was discussing the WT+ predict and he stated he and his family flew World Traveller Plus.

Hardly a huge “travel perk” as unlike many families on holiday as he mentioned he spent most of the flight meeting customers and speaking to crew.

Cost cutting is not an offence, demanding excessive pay and the continuation of outdated BOAC-era working practices is indeed offensive to passengers and most right-minded working people.

The Union leadership are the ones who have stirred up and mandated a strike. It is quite plain for all to see that there is only modest support within BA – centred at LHR – for this action. The Union is weakening and knows it must fight to survive, and striking is the frightened response of a dying beast.

While there has been some disruption, this has been successfully kept to a minimum, with 75% of passengers booked to fly being flown throughout the strike. People “unfortunately” don’t seem to get to see all this disruption exactly because it has been kept to an absolute minimum and BA has continued to run a schedule using its own and other aircraft, booking people onto competitors where necessary.

BA and WW spent one whole year negotiating with the unions; they failed to agree a settlement.

BA continues to report accurate legally audited statistics while Unite/Bassa peddle lies and mistruths.

I think the public did have support for BA Crew. Many continue to support the right-minded crew who have continued to support the airline and travelling public during this strike.

However, it is clear from reading the paper, TV news and forums such as this that the public has little time for crew who have decided to strike, and do so at a time which has caused distress over the traditional Easter break, a period over which Unite said it would not take action.

To cite your example of Cathay, that is not a highly Unionised airline, and staff are paid far less than is the case at BA. A lower cost base, and co-operative staff led by strong management who can focus on the economics of running an airline rather than distractions from Union dinosaurs will lead BA back into profit. Despite all this, there is still industrial unrest at Cathay, so your argument holds no water at any level.

Let’s not forget WW managed a 10% margin just two years ago, has put in place a (fully funded) Fleet Replacement Programme which is already underway with 777/A320/Embraer deliveries and 787 and A380 on the way, managed an operating PROFIT in Q4 2009 and has presided over improvements to the hard products in First and Club World as well as the merger with Iberia and further alignment with American Airlines.

You seem to think another CEO would handle things differently. I can tell you they would not, and if I have any criticism of WW it is that he held back standing up to Unite for too long. In an AA/IB/BA conglomerate I can tell you that BA unions would get short shrift in demanding the perpetuation of outdated working practices.

I continue to fly British Airways, and have signalled my support for those hard-pressed crew who in choosing to work through the strike face bullying and intimidation from BASSA and others by booking next month’s flying programme exclusively on BA.

The City is also in support of WW and BA Management, as you will see from the share price which continues to upward spiral (up over 25% in the past six months).

I am proud to support the hard working cabin crew at BA, and to support the airline with my own flying spend.

Unite lacks the intelligence and the support to break BA, and it must be stopped.

[Binman62]

Couple of points.

BAs customer base is global not solely UK based so the comment about the British getting the airline they deserve is meaningless. Indeed the public and in particular the reactionary press in this country love nothing more than knocking BA and have done for years. They continue to do so via comments that BA has cancelled 37% of flights. That means 63% operated and that is frankly better than on a foggy day.
BA success has been gained through offering products and services that are world beating and are delivered in a consistent and professional manner by well paid and motivated staff. The staff, including crew, now enjoy some of the best facilities, pay, uniform, subsidies canteen facilities, and benefits of any organisation in the UK, if it were not so then the airline would not be doing as well as it is.

Comparisons with Cathy are ridiculous as that airline cut everyone’s pay down to 3 weeks for every 4 worked without agreement just last year.

BA has not made an employee redundant through anything but voluntary means since it was privatised. Indeed they go to incredible lengths to protect staff in major re organisations. In recent times this included all non London based ground staff being offered 3 choices when ground handling was contracted out. These choices included jobs with the ground handler, crew jobs or generous redundancy packages. Those who took crew roles also had a year in which to change their mind and take redundancy.

Current crew have been reduced by 1 on 747, they will have to work that bit harder but the hours spent in the crew bunks on long range sectors will not be cut. For years they have held the firm to ransom and their intransigent representatives are now being taken on. It was cabin crew who 3 and 4 years ago regularly forced BA to close the First Cabins on flights as they would not operate 1 down. Passengers were inconvenienced and it added to Bas costs and damaged it reputation. No business can tolerate being held to ransom like this and how many of us have to daily cover for colleagues who may be ill or simply having a duvet day.

63% of crew who should have been on duty reported for duty last weekend. That tells me all I need to know. A minority of very vocal aggressive and badly led staff are on strike, many more spineless individuals will have gone sick rather than stick to a principle or show where their loyalty really lies, but over 63% want to work. Enough said..

Good on WW on this one. I am voting with my feet and cash. I fly BA this weekend in F and looking forward it immensely.

[JonathanCohen09]

Hello Everyone,

it is nice to be back again from another trip to see that the BT forum is alive and well and the all of the usual suspects are at each others throats again and as usual, or it seems as usual, about BA.

There have been some sensible well argued contributions to this thread and some that frankly just do not make any sense to me at all.

As regular contributors to this forum are aware, I am no fan of BA but that does not mean that I want to see it brought to it’s knees by a union leadership that seems to care more about it’s own well being than that of the people who pay their subscriptions to keep them in their jobs in the hope that they will look out for their best interests. I have to question the wisdom of calling a strike at this time when the damage done could actually end up costing many Unite members’s jobs if BA cannot get their cost base to a more competitive level and redundancies end up being the only solution.

Geoheuveuk- how can you possibly argue that WW is single handeley responsible for the strike? Are you honestly saying that Unite bares no responsibility at all?

I have on many occassions on this forum disagreed with VK and the content of some of the threads he has written. I have always tried to do by stating my side of an arguement without becoming personal or abusive as there is no place for that kind of post on this forum.

I do however find myself agreeing with most of what he has had to say on this thread as it makes sense. Is VK bias towards BA, yes he is and that is his right, but he is no more pro BA than MarkRoberts is anti BA. that to is his right.

I have no axe to grind here as my travel plans have not been affected by the strike.

I have also talked to many friends who work at BA as i have kept in touch with a number of excellent people who did a great job for me both on the ground and in the air a few years ago when I did use BA and had a Gold Card. They are all working through the strike, all are LHR based, as they are not prepared to have the airline hijacked by a union leadership hellbent on achieving their own agenda.

For me, it is great shame that their voices cannot be heard more loudly as they are the one s that matter. They would all rather accept the necessary changes that would keep all of them in long term employment than the lottery tht will exist if things are not sorted out quickly.

I wish everyone a Happy long Easter weekend and safe travells,

Jonathan

[Account_Deleted]

Account deleted

[Tim2soza]

Geohoveuk – While I am truely sorry that your partner feels aggreived, one cannot deny that staff were warned of the consequences of striking. There was a choice to be made.

Beyond the Unite/BA PR is an airline in serious financial trouble, and all parts of the business being asked to help out. Some have; others seem to want to cling onto ‘rights’ and ‘entitlements’ despite the economic circumstances.

Sustainable income and benefits are incompatible with inflexibility. I truely believe the Union is not serving your partner’s long term interests, putting politics first.

I also feel UK employment law more than sufficiently protects the employee (this is a good thing), and that it serves employees well. I think Unite have expectations that simply do not fit in the internationally competitive market that we are all facing.

WW’s salary and benefits are pulbic information. You only have to go to Companies House online and pay £1 to get the info. It is also probably on the BA website for free.

I sincerely hope your partner comes out of this in the right place for them, despite my personal disagreement with the strike. It can’t be nice going through this. I have always been treated so well by BA cabin crew and have high regard for them.

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