[Henryp1]

Very sad as we’ve just had to book EK to MLE as dont want to take a chance, and really do want to have a good break.

[MartynSinclair]

VK and all the others living in yester-year, the days of Thatcherism and strong arm anti union action by employers is history. I wish VK you would stop with your churlish and boring rhetoric about what you believe to be employment law and business stratertgy a la “VK” for the current economic and policitical world we live in. Ever since these threads have been going, you have continually pontificated (along with others) about how the employer must show strength and not lose face by “negotiating” – becasue this is a long term issue. You hold the view that by using strong arm tactics against the union – the union will either crumble or give in. In essence, what the dispute is about is more or less irrelevant – this is your style, this is how you would see the problem playing out.

The problem is VK, that what ever you believe to be the “right” or “legal” or “proper” solution is just not happening – the strikes continue, the upheveal continues and the only solution in sight is that the entire company will fall and a “new fleet” will rise in its shadow, causing thousands of people to lose their jobs with the additonal knock on effects that will without doubt arise.

You should take a lesson in the way that the Tories and Lib Dems have resolved the bigger issue of Govenrnement – they talked together and found a solution (behind closed doors). You do not have to highlight that Unite are not exactly a politically party, but they are a group of people that can be heard either through negitiation or strike. I believe that those who turn their backs on talking are the fools.

You asked Geo how he would solve the problems. I am not exactly sure how he would go about it, but all i do know is that the solutions and ideas put over by your self along with the respected NTarrant, whether right or wrong, have not yet worked. Rather than continually bleating and damning Unite, why not come to terms that maybe just maybe G-d forbid, the mighty VK, needs to search his thoughts to see if there is another way to bring the sides together instead of moving employer and emplyee further apart.

Its 2010 VK and Co, wake up to the brave new world and stop thinking that Maggie is still in charge!

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

What is most disappointing about this site is the way that a small number of people seek to deliberately misrepresent the views of others, in a bid to bolster their own arguments.

Martyn – at NO POINT has VK (or anyone else) said that BA should not negotiate with Unite. Indeed, they have been in negotiations for months! The issue is that, after protracted negotiations, the two sides have been unable to reach an agreement.

Some people in this thread keep stating that ’employees have rights’. That is correct. Unfortunately, what most of these same people choose to ignore is that EMPLOYERS have rights too! You cannot expect an employer to continue business practices which will, in time, send them broke.

Other sections of the BA workforce – flight crew, engineers, etc. – have understood this and accepted that they have to make some sacrifices if they wish to remain working for BA – and to make sure that BA remains in business. BA management and those sectors of the workforce have negotiated successfully to achieve an outcome. Unfortunately, Unite seems obsessed with its ‘rights’ above all else. Well, with ‘rights’ come ‘responsibilities’. It’s well past time for Unite to start being responsible.

Bottom line – if you are not happy with your employer, the decent thing to do is resign and go somewhere else to work. As a BA passenger, I for one do not wish to fly on an aircraft crewed by people who care so little for their airline that they continually seek to blackmail their employer and disrupt the plans of their passengers.

[MartynSinclair]

John – re read VK and co threads (i am sure he will be responding as he always does).

“To compromise now would only postpone this unrest for a later date; previous CEOs fudged the issues and that is why WW is proposing new crew face a more dramatic re-alignment of salary/T&Cs than would otherwise be the case” – Quote by VK

“if they feel so unhappy in their jobs that they wish to pursue this level of disruptive action, then they should leave the company.

Or be made to leave”. – quote VK

“BA does not have to negotiate anything with the union, and can simply impose new contracts on cabin crew, with 90 days notice and an option for redundancy for those who refuse to sign” – quote VK

“BA does not have to negotiate anything with the union”, – quote VK

How many more do you want to see. Here is a man so set in his ways that he has no intention of compramise becuase in VK’s world, the emp0loyer doesnt have to compramise.

This is called challenging the views of another blogger (whom I actually respect and agree with on many other points he says). I am certainly not missrepresenting his views, read his quotes, unless our understanding of VK’s English differs.

All i am proposing is that it needs another solution, it needs more thought. If Cameron and Clegg can talkm I think WW and Unite can do the same, irresepctive of what VK & co believe.

Ialso agree 100% with what you say about not wishing to fly on an aircraft crewed by misreable flight crew. Xmas day i was in First back to London and was greeted by a CSD who made it quite clear, he did not want to be working. Good management would want to learn about the issues and try to resolve – why should they leave. Cabin crew were taken on and given a job spec. If the tools of their trade change and some of those tools taken away and they are exepcted to do the same job, i am sure you would complain. Jobs are difficult enough to come by these days – if you are going to manage employees, then manage them, dont dictate to them.

Please John from Aus, read the blogs as they are intended, views and opinions. I dont believe i have attacked VK personaly or misrepresented his views – i have dont agree with his continual rhetoric and pompous management of people.

[VintageKrug]

Indeed, thank you for that John.

As I have said before I am strong supporter of proper employee representation especially in the more cyclical industries where there are lower paid employees.

Employees have rights, which are important, but it seems to me that some employees are not being made aware of their responsibilities; and as we saw last night there is little tolerance for rights without responsibilities in the new reality of 2010.

BA has negotiated, and compromised, in delivering a deal which Unite recommended its membership reject – thus triggering the strike – and if you read below the reason they recommended a no vote was not related to whether or not this was a good offer, but rather on the grounds that they now wanted staff travel restored to those who took action last time, and those who had transgressed the company’s disciplinary code be re-instated. This has shifted the goalposts to a circular argument. This is fact, and I refer you to the relevant document here:

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/We_need_to_ask_060510.doc

BA has successfully compromised in the recent past with other parts of its employee base, which suggests the fault doesn’t lie with BA Management.

The bottom line here is that it seems to me MS is commenting on something about which he is not in possession of the historical context.

The fact is that BA has attempted to negotiate on this dispute with BASSA/Unite for over 18 months now, and decades prior to that on other issues. This has not been successful partially because of the personal animosity between BASSA and senior BA Management (not WW) and also because Unite and BASSA negotiators themselves are so divided that they have often refused to sit in the same room together with each other, making negotiations impossible.

It is quite clear this dispute is not about T&Cs or remuneration, otherwise Unite/BASSA would have settled last year when there was an even better offer than the very reasonable off which is now on the table for Cabin Crew.

It is about Union power.

That is why the current strike has been called (illegally IMHO) on the grounds of re-instating staff travel and re-instating those disciplined for bullying those who chose to work and other misdemeanours.

The fundamental issue here is that the Union has imposed completely unrealistic working practices on BA for far too long, e.g. refusing to serve hot towels to WT+ customers without having a whole extra crewmember on board per longhaul flight.

There are plenty of other examples of these idiotic working practices, and they have to stop. The Union realises that if it gives in now, it is finished as a force within BA, and also is compromised with its other Transport industry members, and also it has nothing to lose by calling for a strike (unless legal challenges are successful, which they often are against BASSA/Unite).

To compromise now would be a waste of so much investment and a disservice to those crew who believe they can continue to get the income and job satisfaction they are seeking, but by delivering great service and profitability for BA, rather than the unqualified Union leaders micromanaging working practices for the airline.

Doing so would mean every time the union thought it knew better than BA management, further strikes would be called. No-one – not crew, not customers and not the country, want that situation.

http://www.uniteba.com

[MartynSinclair]

To All who seem to follow VK and believfe any discussion against his views is a show of missrepresentation of his views or a sign of being on another planet – please read VK comments very carefuly, esepcially when he says IMHO (these are HIS opinions). We all all have the right to express these, even if they go against the views of VK, Jonno09 and NTarrant and others.

So John fron Aus – “What is most disappointing about this site is the way that a small number of people seek to deliberately misrepresent the views of others, in a bid to bolster their own arguments” – please do not make personal assumptions when someone blogs against what you think.

As far as VK response is concenred, yes i am familliar with the BA history – whilst not employed by BA and never have been, part of my business is aviation related and i sit in the left seat on a flight deck, and am very much aware of the history of the dispute and along with VK’s previous comments have researched his previous replies.

As for his latest, it is no difference to his former – same argument, same rhetoric, same same.

My point is that “it don’t work” VK -if it did there wouldnt be a third strike. The city will eventually lose patience. if people with more pride than WW and Unite can talk and form a Governement, then for goodness sake, this should be used as an example for Industrial Relations. Talk – dont just act like a python and squeeze the life out of people.

Think out of the box VK and others. You may be suprised at your new world!

[VintageKrug]

You turn if you want to….VK’s not for turning!

[RichardG]

VK, I agree with everything you say except the bit about Gordon Brown…..
As a former union rep and BA crew, Unite/BASSA’s actions dismay me. They claim that BA won’t negotiate but it is Unite who won’t discuss anything that they consider unpalatable. THEY are the ones being intransigent, not BA management.
Now they say they want the staff travel returned. That will be the same staff travel they were told would be taken away if they went on strike. It couldn’t have been made any clearer. BA have offered to return it but only on the basis that the seniority element of it will be removed, in effect putting those users at the level of new entrants to the company and last on the standby list.
I don’t think this strike will have a high level of support as these crew can’t afford to throw away a month’s wages. The last strike hit them all very hard in the pocket as some of them didn’t fly for 3 weeks and BA paid them nothing at all. Unite will pay them £30 a day in strike pay.
Most of the BA crew are decent, hard-working folk but they are being totally misled by the union and the militants who run it. These militants are the ones who lost most in the staff travel removal because they are generally very senior in the company. If Willie does a Swissair, I hope he recognises those who supported the company and didn’t strike. It really would be unfair to them if they are penalised by being given different (worse) terms and conditions. I believe BA are aiming for wages of Virgin + 10%. That is not a great wage, trust me.

[MartynSinclair]

well time will tell.

We both want the same solution, its just the routes to get their differ. Remember, sonetimes “its good to talk”!

Have a great day all

[BlackTower]

Had a non refundable/inflexible Club World ticket with outbound this saturday 15th (non strike day) back 19th (strike day).

BA let me rebook the whole trip in July for free (and now with no Saturday night stay either) my plans having changed. It is clear that if you have this kind of ticket and you fancy changing your plans it is now briefly possible to change it. Saved my Company £6000

[Travellator]

Obviously this strike is definately going ahead cos Gordon Brown resigned a week early so he could take his BA flight to Scotland last night otherwise he would be on the train next Wednesday !

Bit of light rlief this thread is getting very heavy !

[openfly]

Totally fed up with BA. Have recently booked with other carriers and found that IB/AF/LH have vastly superior service. Bye BA………

[Travellator]

Unemployment has risen to 2.51 million, the highest total since 1994, according to new figures that reveal the extent of the jobs crisis facing the coalition Government.

……………………………………….And theres a Strike !

Unite should learn what Scargill didn’t

[VintageKrug]

I think you may find that the BA strike will be the first in a raft of Unite action as it seeks to react against the inevitable public sector cutbacks which are on their way.

[VintageKrug]

Dear VintageKrug,

As you are undoubtedly aware, Unite, the trade union that represents British Airways’ cabin crew has announced further strike action.

Although I am sorry to again be writing to you under these circumstances, as a highly valued customer and Gold Guest List member, I wanted to update you on the situation and thank you for your continued loyalty and support.

We were saddened but not surprised that Unite has announced plans for strikes that span 23 days including the May bank holiday and half term. I can assure you that this action will not ground British Airways.

Unite officials continue to show a callous disregard for our customers. A small minority act as if they want to destroy BA and the jobs of thousands of their colleagues.

The offer on the table is very fair. It includes a guaranteed pay rise for the next two years, meets the union’s concerns on crewing levels, access to routes and maintains a standard of living that reflects the value and service our cabin crew deliver to our customers.

During the last two periods of industrial action, thousands of staff from across the airline, including volunteers, kept British Airways flying and we flew more than half a million customers to their destinations.

We are confident that many cabin crew will again ignore Unite’s pointless strike call and support the efforts of the rest of the airline.

On the strike dates we will operate all London Gatwick and London City services. At Heathrow we plan to operate a substantial part of our longhaul schedule. There will also be a number of daily flights to every destination across our shorthaul network.

We are talking to other airlines about leasing in extra aircraft to support our shorthaul schedule and we will buy thousands of seats from other airlines to help our customers rebook if their original flight is cancelled.

I fully appreciate that information is critical during such a period so we will regularly update ba.com with details of our revised schedule and options available.

Your support, patience and understanding during the recent months have been invaluable and I would like to thank you in advance for your continued loyalty in support of our business.

Yours sincerely,

Willie Walsh

[Author]

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