[dutchyankee]

To add my two cents worth, many of the destinations mentioned are served by OW partners, and part of the reason for such alliances is to take advantage of strengths of particular partners. Case in point, Yangon, I would imagine barring any vast economic or business improvement leave it to connection flights via Hong Kong or even KL (not sure if MH flies there are not), as regardless how BA were to serve it, it would have to be a tag on an existing flight, which means additional crew costs amongst others. The same holds for Manila or Taipei. The number of flights from Hong Kong to Taipei already is strong, would it really be wise for BA to reintroduce this destination as a tag to their own HKG service? Same for Manila.

As for New York, the great idea of the unified service from LHR to JFK with AA is that it operates almost like a shuttle service now. To use an A380 to `free up a slot` would also diminish the frequency of service business people of that route value so much. i think the A380 is best utilised on those routes such as LAX where a double daily service can be beefed up without having to resort to an additional flight altogether. Same for JNB and HKG. Miami would therefore likewise make sense as it is current 3X a day, and then perhaps the last flight (I believe a 777) could be relieved and the slot/aircraft used elsewhere.

I would love to hear about their plans for new destiantions, and am pleased to hear from rferguson that Djakarta now seems to be certain, just a shame it isnt nonstop.

[sparkyflier]

Hi dutchyankee always good to see your posts. On this one we will have slightly different positions. Alliances are good and providing feed and reach into the smaller cities which might not justify standalone direct connections.

But sometimes an airline will get more money by flying to a city itself, as well as provide business/leisure traffic for the nation the airline represents, in this case UK PLC.

Also providing stops means a less competitive offering – for example flying to Yangon from LHR via HKG or KUL on CX or MH, has a long, tedious and time consuming backtrack. A bit like going LHR to Miami via ORD or DFW.

Two of my colleagues speak at events worldwide on a regular basis. One will simply not go to a place if there is no direct flight. The other is a bit more adventurous and does not mind so much. I dont mind as I like travelling and getting more ponts and miles, ha ha. However sometimes only a direct flight will do, and is preferable.

Tags to exisiting flights do have extra costs, but this is cheaper than flying the tagged route as a standalone, and enables the airline to enter a market to test the viability of a route – a bit like BA is doing to Colombo – tagging the city to an exisiting route, Male.

Tags also enable crew to not rest in a place of unrest or high risk, while ensuring the revenue comes pooring in. This is how AF and LH fly into Port Harcourt. They tag the flights to Abuja ( purpose built capital city of Nigeria), where crew rest, but shuttle down and back up to get the oil money, whilst avoiding the risk.

Also sometimes the partner airline, or in the example of IAG, Iberia, the product offering is poor that it scares away business from the airline group. This example could be applied to Iberia in the context of Oneworld.

Re New York, there are some flight which leave within 20/25 minutes of each other. I understand the concept of the shuttle but 20 minutes is not too onerous a wait.

rferguson I am surprised to hear St Louis is on the list. It was served by BCal and then TWA years ago, but would have thought Portland, Charlotte, Austin and others would be more likely. But thats interesting and they must have good reason for thinking about it.

I found the link again to the Bloomberg interview, where he (Keith Williams) says 12 slot pairs would be made available for long haul routes, which the writer decided to say these were for asian growth:-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-05/british-airways-787s-to-fill-asian-holes-using-12-heathrow-slots.html

You can enable huge growth for new routes, especially using tags on some and 3 or 4 flights a week on others, with 12 slots – for example 3 in North America, 4 Asia, 3 Africa, 2 South America.

These would really help BA to not lose traffic to AF/KL and other carriers.

[SimonS1]

I suspect the difficulty with building in stops like London/Manila/Taipei is that BA would be unlikely to compete with the Asian carriers.

Now EK has started to Taipei that means 5 cities in UK are within 1 stop of Taipei.

[dutchyankee]

@Sparkyflyer, likewise for me, happy to read you even if your reply seems a bit patronizing (which I am sure was not intentional). That said, I still believe that it is best to allow a partner airline that is more apt to a certain market to test the viability of a route before jumping with their own equipment, and I believe Yangon is a prime example. Lets not forget QR will be in one world soon, so let them do Yangon, then no back track.

You and I have discussed Africa a lot and I told you about my old hotel in Gaborone where I had BA crew from the tagged BA service from Jo-burg which on a good day carried 30 to 50 pax. BA made money transporting diamonds in a strongbox in the First wardrobe and when that contract was cancelled, BA dropped Gabs immediately. And don’t forget, I told you that AF tagged GBE to their weekly Luanda service as the crew unions refused their members staying in Luanda, so for crew safety they added GBE, often carrying 20 or less GBE bound pax. I was happy as it gave me 27 crew rooms (double crew on the AF 743, former UTA), but it was not long before this was stopped and the crew deadheaded one direction and it was a turnaround to Paris from Luanda.

Of course some tags make sense, but I would assume BA has the right specialists researching routes on a continual basis and will make the right decisions I would hope.

As for New York, you are right for the flights exit JFK but this is of course due to time difference and arrival time in the UK. The departure times from the UK are far better spaced to be more ‘shuttle like.’

Finally, as stated by Simon, if BA has local traffic rights on tags, this would put BA at a competitive disadvantage in areas such as Asia and the Middle East where local carriers’ service is far superior to that of BA.

[simplesimon]

Chengdu isn’t doing very well, by all accounts.

With China in transition, it’s not going to be the boomtown everyone thought it would be for at least another few years.

[IanFromHKG]

sparkyflyer – 27/08/2013 14:52 GMT : rferguson I am surprised to hear St Louis is on the list. It was served by BCal and then TWA years ago, but would have thought Portland, Charlotte, Austin and others would be more likely. But thats interesting and they must have good reason for thinking about it.

Can’t see Charlotte as an option unless the AA/US merger goes through. Non-stop long-haul traffic is locked up by Star, and AA simply don’t have enough connecting flights through CLT to make it attractive as a connection point

[sparkyflier]

Dutchyankee, sincere apologies if my post gave that impression, it really was not intended.

Re the Gabs route, I was one of the first flights UTA operated to GBE – CDG-LAD-GBE in December ’89.. I was a teenager and excited by the whole adventure. When arriving I checked into the . . .Sun!

You are right about local traffic rights, especially in Asia, and this also adds complication and complexity.

simplesimon about Chengdu that is interesing. Visa restrictions in the UK cannot help, but I also wonder if BA was late to the party, and local businesses already have an affinity and affection for Skyteam carrier KLM, who have done very well there for many years now.

Ian -I think US Airways are moving to Oneworld now anyway, and have already announced this. BA served Charlotte years ago, and then in conjuction with US when they were their main partner.

Personally I think Portland, Austin and maybe New Orleans would be innovative, but the latter I am not sure how viable this would be!

[dutchyankee]

Hi Sparkyflyer, I would love to see BA return to New Orleans, and the last direct service from Portland to London I believe was with Pan Am years ago, so that would be interesting. I am intriqued by the idea of Austin, why do you suggest Austin? Beautiful city that it is, I am not sure that other than being the state capital, there is much business or tourist traffic for non-Yanks? What am I missing. Historically and tourist wise, San Antonio is far more appealing, but again, probably not to direct flights from the UK. St. Louis I could see, as quite a major city, and while AA has completely demolished the former TWA hub, there is still some good connecting opportunities. If the AA/US merger does go through, BA could do well with their own metal to Pittsburgh. If we are really thinking out of the box, then I would see BA back into Honolulu, would love them to start to Fort Lauderdale (although in VK`s days he hinted this was being looked at exit LGW), and back to San Juan, and how about Minneapolis and Memphis (although economically Memphis is really on a downward spiral) just to stick it to Delta.

[sparkyflier]

Hi dutchyankee

To be honest I got the Austin idea from a discussion on this site from another poster, who listed the merits, which seemed decent to me. But I have not been there myself. Maybe this would be better served by an AA 767.

Pittsburgh was well served by BA years ago, perhaps even with 747, but this may have been when they had an alliance with US.

I do not think BA and “out the box thinking” go together! They are so conservative! I doubt we will ever see a BA 787 in Honolulu.

I can see Fort Lauderdale happening, but do not know why they are taking so long on this! In the news article yesterday about BA LGW getting another 772, I mentioned this, thinking 767 would be fine for this, ex LHR, but either I think will do well.

Would love to see them go back to San Juan! Would love to go there, although I cannot see it happening. IB have also pulled out as they scale back their costs, streamline and renogotiate costs, so hope in the meantime Air Europa will start there from MAD.

Minneapolis I see as Delta fortress and as their inflight product is very good, I cannot see BA providing a sufficient enough alternative to twin city residents.

Memphis I did not know was going down, but I did know that Detroit, at least the city, is struggling.

I reckon when most people are back to work next week, there will be the BA Sale announcment, as well as Jakarta being confirmed, as well as new Summer routes for 2014 – perhaps with the World Cup on in Brazil they may do something extra for that, especially now that TAM are joining oneworld.

[SenatorGold]

Hi sparkyflyer and dutchyankee

BA did indeed serve Pittsburgh with a 747. I remember flying in 1992 to Washington Dulles and the flight went on to Pittsburgh.

I’d like to see BA return to Seychelles; if they did so, most probably it would be from LGW. If BA are able to make a go of flying to Maldives (I flew with them to Male in April and both ways Club World was full), in face of competition from Emirates and Qatar, they should be able to do the same with Seychelles, especially since Qatar has withdrawn its service to Mahe.

@ dutchyankee I was in Lusaka in June and stayed at the Intercon. Sadly I didn’t have time to get to Marlins.

All the best
Senatorgold

[dutchyankee]

Hi SenatorGold, great to read your post. How was the InterConti, so jealous that you were back in Lusaka!! I love it there, and Zambians are such great people as we discussed before.

On the point of the Seychelles, I agree this should be relaunched, but others have pulled out, even QR I thought did pull out or are planning to pull out. A real shame as it is having a major impact on the economy of the island as tourists are left with few options, so flights are getting very expensive, and the hotels are already very high, so the appeal is diminishing. I remember flying BA to Mauritius in First on a 744 with an enroute stop in Nairobi in one direction and nonstop in the other, and the flight was full. Shame it is now from LGW, on a 777, and no First, but at least they still are flying there.

[sparkyflier]

Hi also SenatorGold good to see you.

And how was the Intercont in Lusaka? Did you have the chance to check out the new competition – the new Radisson Blu?

How is the Pamodzi holding up?

Re Seychelles this seems a tough one, especially as Qatar could not make an A319/20 work. But then the target market for such a destination, honeymooners/reasonably wealthy people, would not want to have to change planes, when there are so many direct options (including one stop no plane change) to places such as Male, SriLanka, Mauritius, Caribbean and Mexico for example).

I reckon if BA were to locate 2/3 767s at LGW they would not have any problems filling the plane up (and also using these for other decent leisure destinations, especially as the economy is growing again), particularly at the front. Or re-combining the route with Mauritius – would this really be such a problem for Mauritius destined PAX? BA could have 2 nonstop Mauritius flights a week, andd two via Mahe. Do you reckon that would work?

Or it could be a LGW-Zanzibar and vice versa route on 772!

[SenatorGold]

Hi dutchyankee and sparkyflyer

I reckon BA could make Seychelles work. Since Air Seychelles stopped flying to Europe (or long haul at all – I’m not sure if they still serve Singapore) as a result of Ethihad buying them out, there are no direct services from Europe to Seychelles. BA wouldn’t need to fly there more than two or three times a week – at least initially.

The BA routing to Seychelles (when they used to fly there) and Mauritius has changed quite a bit over the years. Other than flying via Nairobi (as dutchyankee mentions), Mauritius was once served via Dubai and Seychelles. Before the Mauritius service was moved to LHR (in or about late 2001 I think), it was served (as was Seychelles) from LGW. I flew BA Club World from LHR to Mauritius shortly before the service was transferred back to LGW in 2011 and the cabin was full both ways. However, Air Mauritius was much cheaper and one advantage of BA moving their Mauritius service to LGW may be cheaper fares. However, I’m sure transfer pax are much inconvenienced.

It’s a great shame to hear that Seychelles is having a diminishing appeal to tourists. I really enjoyed my two visits there even though I was there for work. I preferred it to Mauritius. Dutchyankee, you are right – the hotels are very expensive. I stayed on both occasions at the Le Meridien Fishermans Cove which was very good.

Thanks for enquiring about my Lusaka trip – Lusaka was Lusaka i.e. as enjoyable and welcoming as ever. The Intercon remains my favourite: the staff are warm and charming. I even managed a dip in the pool even though it was winter time. The restaurant overlooking the pool and garden is always relaxing.

It was very different the following week when I was staying at the Hilton Yaounde, but that is another story.

@sparkyflyer – I had lunch at the Taj Pamodzi but have to say I wasn’t greatly impressed by the food on offer. I’ve heard some good things about the Radisson Blu, but its location is not great if you have meetings in the government/diplomatic area.

I had good flights with BA to and from Lusaka on refurbished 767s. I’d read reports that the catering on the Lusaka flights wasn’t up to scratch, but I had no problems. I always enjoy daylight flights to and from Africa and so the return flight offered some amazing views of the Sahara and north African coastline.

[sparkyflier]

Senator Gold really good to hear of your Lusaka and other African travels. Regarding the Yaounde Hilton, what went wrong? Is there any decent competition in Yaounde to the Hilton? And in Douala any suggestions?

I ask as it is possible I may venture there in the next months/year, although this “plan” is very much at initial stages. SN the best way to get to these I imagine, in both J and Y?

[SenatorGold]

Hi sparkyflyer

There is no real competition to the Hilton Yaounde, the reason being is that it’s government owned and that’s the way they like it. Sadly the hotel takes its guests for granted. It was the second time I had organised a seminar there and we were treated like second rate guests. Without any warning our conference room was moved and two of our number received letters advising them that they were expected to check out one day early in order to make way for a Heads of State meeting. There were numerous other mishaps; taken on their own they would not have amounted to much, but cumulatively it made for a stressful week. It was a great pity as I had enjoyed my two previous visits to Cameroon – the first of which included a six hour bus trip to Bamenda.

I would highly recommend Brussels Airlines to either Douala or Yaounde. This was the first route on which they introduced their new sleeper seats. Now all their A330s are fitted with the new seats. If in Business Class try to make sure you get one of the single seats with a console on either side. The service, food and wines are all very good (you will enjoy the box of Neuhaus chocolates given to each business class pax). I discovered a very enjoyable Belgian wine and they usually have a good South African chenin blanc too. The only downside is the long walk at Brussels airport if transferring from UK.

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