[continentalclub]

I’ve been upgraded to First on several occasions with BA, and the cabin was full every time. Other than being seated in rows 3, 4 or 5, as opposed to 1 or 2, I’m not aware of the service levels being any different to those that I’ve enjoyed when I have been booked from the outset into that cabin.

I certainly received menus and all other amenities and, though I appreciate that I may have been lucky then (or amnesial now), I’m sure that I also enjoyed my first choices from the dishes offered on each occasion.

No matter, I do agree that one can enjoy a good sleep in many of the horizontal business class beds that are flying around these days, including Club World but, for me, the additional space, the higher ratio of crew to passengers and the generally quieter cabin all add up to a significant enough differentiator for me to value First.

[wanula1]

I agree with continentalclub. I have booked and been up graded into first on a number of carriers and I have never experience a different level of service as part of an up grade.

I personally think the new BA First looks smart and I’m looking forward to my first flight with the new cabin.

First still has a place with premium carriers even though you can on most carriers these day have a fully flat bed business bed. Its about choice and it gives airlines an opportunity to treat those true frequent flyers.

On a different note could BT please remove any posts on these forums that are used to personally attack others, I and most other posters on here really don’t want to read them

[RoadKing]

MartynSinclair:
I have had the pleasure to be upgraded to First, and I did in no way experience that I was given a different level of service.

I don’t know what it is with some of you guys and this constant harrasment to BA and the staff there. Perhaps you have to get out try some other stuff, to see how bad and rude it can possibly be.

At any rate, criticizing companies and company policy is one thing, staff is a bad target.

Have you considered that those you attack cannot defend themselves? Is that fair? Next time you complain, take into consideration this fact, imagine it was yourself being attacked. Try be a bit humble and realize that there may be more to a story than what you know.

BA is not my natural choice, geographical. But they have been for the last years. This is because they have competitive prices, they have the schedules, a fine product and not at least; I think I get great service. This is worth a couple of hours in the air for me.

Why, if you are so displeased, why don’t you just let your feet do what your mouth is running over with. Travel with another airline. that hurts BA. Ignorant impolite ranting doesn’t hurt them, in fact most of this outburst is so violent that it will not be taken serious.

VK may be exaggerating a bit in supporting BA, but I don’t consider him affiliated with BA. I used myself to be very found of SK and used any occassion to mention them. I myself have more often than not found his contributions informative. Granted, I have thought to myself sometimes “this is a bit repetitive”, but then, what harm does it do? I as well as anyone else can just skim through the post, even skip it, and go to the next. You know, you don’t have to read everything.

I think this forum should be to share experiences, not to rant off. The subtle, but essential difference of the two being that the former is informative as the latter at best is entertaining.

For those of you that go way and beyond in characerizing other people and companies, you should know that this behavior is in fact turning back on to you. Your competence, experience and respect drop in the eyes of others. Just think about the bully in the school yard, he might win the fights, but he was no more liked for it, rather the opposite.

[Tim2soza]

I agree with wanula1 – Any personal attacks should be removed from the forum.

May I also suggest that contributors be required to declare their interest if discussing an organisation to which they are affiliated in any way.

[SimpleDXB]

A number of points here.

Firstly, my post suggesting that VK’s posts irritated me was not necessarily a comment directed just at this thread, but rather the proliferation of posts made by VK across the whole of the BT forum which all read shamelessly like BA press pieces rather than expressions of opinion, which is what I thought forums like these were more about.

Secondly, given this is a forum on business travel, one assumes that I like everyone else has the right to express an opinion, and I did just that. For anyone who is truly a frequent flyer (and not someone who just works for / is sponsored by BA / only travels with BA and still has romantic notions about the BOAC days), VK’s pieces are as flimsy as the now second rate service and product (both on the ground and in the air) that BA offer. Most if not all Asian carriers offer a far superior travel experience, and often for a fraction of the price.

Thirdly, call me crazy but I too still have a romantic notion of BA being ‘the World’s favourite airline’, but new first class or not, they are just not that good. And anyone having the pleasure of flying in the first suites on SQ / EY / EK etc will read the details of BA’s new first product comfortable in the knowledge that they still have no reason to switch their choice of carrier.

[RoadKing]

SimpleDXB:
My comment on the attacks on VK was on a general basis, not for this thread in particular.
As for the right to express an opinion, I do absolutely agree with you, the point is just how one express the opinion.

SK doesn’t have, and to my knowledge never have had a First product.

But their Biz class did in its time revolutionize biz travelling.

I agree that middle east and asian carriers have a First product superior to what is found in Europe and certainly the US. I believe this to be a cultural phenomena. In the western hemisphere, such thing as First is kind of old fashion, “We’re all equal”. You don’t find the same attitude in ME/Asia.

Personally I would never purchase a First, I can do pts upgrades, but I don’t see it is worth, not for me, nor my company to pay a lot of money to be a “star”.

[SimpleDXB]

Roadking – try googling “Singapore Airlines First Class Suites”. Their suite product notwithstanding, they also carry the first class product on most of their older fleets, admittedly not suites, but the service and quality of fare offered on board (e.g. my last flight I had a choice of Dom or Krug). And as for the breast warmed pen…. 😉

BTW, entirely agree with your comment re first often not being worth the additional over J (assuming a flat bed J class product of course!).

[RoadKing]

Ah, you mean SQ. Ok, I thought you were talking of Scandinavian Airlines (SK).

[SimpleDXB]

My apologies indeed – I was referring to SQ! I will edit the post…

[HBHLondon]

In looking at the photo of the new First seats, I think they do not represent a substantial improvement, apart from the little more space on the upper part of the seat. New colours and a more modern cabin are good, but what about the very moody entertainment system? Has it got better? Are the new toilets larger? (Incidentally, they are much smaller than those of Economy in Emirates). I assume the cabin is as cramped as before. I used to like seat 3A on a 747 until a gentlement with very smelly toes on a JNB-LHR flight removed his socks and gave me the most annoying flight of my life. If one is horizontal in 3A the toes of the person opposite are literally less that half a metre away. I find the question of personal space a big problem with the BA First layout. I suppose the alternative is to removed some seats as other airlines have done but BA opted for the same albeit a bit spruced up.

As for the the shameless partiality of VK’s entries towards BA, I agree is it not healthy in this forum that he derides entries which are not favourable to BA, as was the case with me when I started a thread on BA upgrading after boarding. He should try to moderate his entries as he still is a valuable source of information (although only on BA).

[Senator]

LondonCity is correct, SK did have a First Class product. Actually, they abolished this with introduction of the B767-300s in 1989. SK was once the leader in innovation. In 1985, they introduced “EuroClass” as an alternative to First Class in Europe. I have one SK Purser whom I have met 3-4 times on MD-80s who has worked for 32 years in the cabin. On a late night flight from LHR to ARN with a quiet business cabin, he took the time to narrate the European first class service of the late 70s, early 80s… Wish I could have tested this….

A quick Google search on SAS First Class yielded an interesting article from The NY Times in 1993. Interesting perspective to today’s discussion about First Class survival with many carriers. This seems to be a recessionary discussion…

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/05/style/05iht-freq.html?pagewanted=2

[MartynSinclair]

Having read the recent responses, i would like to clarify a couple of things.

1. BA and readers should not take any of my comments as negative. BY FAR, British Airways have the best busienss class seat of all airlines. The product replicates First Class accomdation – my point is that with a product so good, why on earth is their a need for a First Class revamp, because whether you are unconcious in First or Business, does it really make a difference. The new suites appearing on airlines, such as SQ are fabulous beyond imagination. But in 2010, how on earth can anyone flying on business, justify the cost justify the need for so much space. £7000 ++ for a full fare first class suite is a disgraceful waste of budgets, when business class does the job. Maybe a business section of busienss class would be a more worthwhile investment, adults only!

2. Upgrades – one reader Hess 936 saying he would decline an upgrade in certain circumstances, I totally agree and indeed have when offered a space available upgrade often declined, esepcially if i have a seat in club which i know is good. On BA, I know that staff upgrades from economy to First occur and in some cases ahead of full paying business class pax – and in some cases the staff are from other airlines. I know this first hand and i hasten to add I am not employed in the airline business or associated with BA in anyway shape or form. When talking about the lack of menus in First for uograded pax, I should have added “to staff upgrades”.

3. At the gate you will always notice the staff members going for upgrades. Usually with a partner a few steps behind, they try to catch the attention of the red cap, whisper whisper and then an anxious wait and then the smile.

4. when you are in First check out the number of pilot bags that come through – esepcially shoiwng a name tag of the airline you are flying.

I realise its all about choice, but overall, how on earth, any director or employee belives he can justify £7000++ on an airticket, when for far less you can still get a bed is beyond belief. I consider myself privaledged to be able to turn left and not right when i enter an aircraft, but I also beleive that one should be accountable for expenditure.

Now if I am an MP or a lottery euro lottery winner, its a different story.

This is a great site and well contributed. I also agree that comments should not be personal – perhaps a moderator is needed by the sponsors.

[SimpleDXB]

Anybody writing that (sic) “BA have the best busienss class seat of all airlines” simply cannot be a frequent traveller, and cannot have flown on more than one carrier (i.e. BA).

It’s not even an opinion to state that the above is not only incorrect…

It. Just. Isn’t. True.

[MartynSinclair]

SimpleDXB do not mix ‘SEAT’and ‘SERVICE’.

I will challenge you Mr. SimpleDXB ,with the loser making a charitable donation to show a better business class (busienss first excluded) seat than BA’s current model. Keep your food and drink and waitress/er service to one side – becasue when you are asleep, you dont need it or are you judging the size of the steak instead of the comfort of the seat?

Have a great weekend an dwe could indeed raise charity with this forumn – if people are brave enough to proove what they say………..

[SimpleDXB]

I gladly accept your challenge, although it is the easiest challenge I have ever undertaken. And given I rarely eat on flights, it is not the ‘size of the steak’ that I am using as the benchmark in any assessment I am making as to the inferiority of BA’s product to others.

So in response to your post, for starters, I’ll raise you Etihad’s J class seat. Do please note that EY’s new J class seat which is now being installed across their fleet is even better than their previous award winning J class seat (which incidentally won the 2009 Skytrax award for Best business class – as voted for by 16 million Skytrax users, myself included). It’s a wonderful seat, so much so that I prefer it to their (non-suite) first class product.

But whilst we’re on that note, I should also point out that EY’s new first class suite which I recently enjoyed on a trip LHR-AUH makes BA’s new first class product look about as luxurious as an Austin Princess.

Cancer Research is my chosen charity of choice BTW.

[Author]

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