[MJPGeneva]

I have followed this and other threads on British Airways here on http://www.businesstraveller.com with interest as a former, fairly frequent BA traveller, musing on whether or not to return to using the airline as a matter of choice.

I must confess that the tone of the debate is marred by the somewhat childish attitude of posters.

As I am new to the debate, I apologise for rehashing old points, but I must come back to the issues raised earlier, and ask a question, two, in fact of VintageKrug, which I noted you failed to answer earlier:

– Where do you get your information from, given that much of it is not in the public domain?
– Can you back up your figure of 1000 Mixed Fleet crew, given that another poster, who claims to have seen the figures, states that the number is much lower than this?

Otherwise, I feel that your claim that you are a disinterested, unassociated bystander doesn’t really wash, which takes away, really, from the whole interest of the debate if we are merely exchanging propaganda.

I’d also be interested in your reaction to the fact that the only poster on this thread to date who has flown with Mixed Fleet, reports the experience to be decidedly underwhelming, even poor.

And, no, just to pre-empt any accusations, not a member of BASSA or a flight attendant, but a Geneva-based international civil servant.

I await your response.

[batraveller2]

In fairness they did try on my Vegas flight, but was just a shambles. It was one of their first flights and so they were all panicking with trolleys just floating around in the galley and not knowing where anything was or what it was. I am not sure how the new “no rush” service will work with business people on key routes such as JFK or Chicago if they ever start flying these routes (unless they eat before and don’t expect any service). I guess the Vegas flight is a long one and there is less need for quick service although I don’t think there should be 2 different standards in service for club world – Vegas is not cheap in Club! I would be surprised if regular business travellers would accept the service if they are used to the usual high quality BA cabin crew (ok they sometimes moan about WIllie Walsh a bit in joking terms if you speak in the galley, but I can understand that). I think the old crew were what made BA and which is why frequently send comment cards thanking the crew. Maybe it will take time for mixed crew to improve which I understand, but from what I gather they have been trained to provide a different service than the existing crew (as one of the old crew said), and so there are going to be clear differences. Am looking forward to my flight back from LA on the upper deck and hopefully the difference will be appararent unless there has been a change to the whole club service. CSD’s and Pursers should remain.

[batraveller2]

Sorry, I would just like to add that I do not travel as frequently as many on here and so maybe I am the exception to have always received good service from BA in the past. I travel a fair bit domestically, but only about 8 to 10 flights in club world a year – mostly to SFO, LAX, Denver or ORD.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

MJP, I’m sure VK can answer for himself, but from my perusal of his posts, almost all of the information he gives IS actually available in the public domain (including websites such as the various union sites, pprune, etc.) and he generally provides the links. I have noted on several occasions that he has also mentioned some of his information has been gleaned from discission with BA staff and executives, so I think he has been fairly upfront about it all.

I think we all need to be careful to accept people on this site for what they tell us they are; those who say they are from BA cabin crew, tech crew or BASSA, we need to accept that if that’s what they say they are, then we should presume they are telling the truth.

Similarly, when VK says he is a BA shareholder and passenger, but not employed by BA, then we should also do him the same courtesy of accepting that he is being truthful. Imputations that are made by some that VK “must be a BA executive” are offensive in that the people making those imputations are saying, effectively, that VK is a liar (as he has repeatedly said he does not work for BA).

To make such a statement or imputation is offensive, defamatory, and has no place on this or any other forum. We should be discussing the ISSUE, not attacking individuals or seeking to raise doubts about their veracity.

(Incidentally, I would be MUCH happier if everyone here used their real name – as I do. I think that would put an end to much of the petty, personal sniping).

On another forum here in Australia, I was recently accused of being a Qantas staffer or troll, because I dared to make the comment that I think QF cabin crew do a good job! (I do NOT work for QF, or anywhere in the travel industry, by the way).

It seems that many people on the net seem to think they can try to win a point by launching a personal attack against other posters, rather than actually dealing with the issue. This is a very low tactic – ‘gutless’, we would say in Australia.

And finally – I’m certain I have seen a couple of other posts from people here who have travelled with a mixed fleet crew; I don’t believe exbatraveller is the only one to have experienced this so far, though I do believe he is the only one to have posted a detailed review.

[FrozenAssets]

JohnP – this thread is about Mixed Fleet.

From VKs posts he is well able to answer himself.

Start a new thread if you wish to promote yourself as VK’s lickspittle and run a campaign – I will support you on that thread.

This thread is for Mixed Fleet.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

George – thank you for proving my point so beautifully. You don’t like what I wrote, so you launch into personal abuse and start caling me names!!!!

Tom Otley – is there some way we can get a system so that personal abuse of other posters and namecalling can be dealt with (or at least removed) ?

[FrozenAssets]

John – READ THE THREAD TITLE – Stick to the thread or leave.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

George – my post was a response to MJP’s, in relation to two issues that he raised – perhaps you should direct the same comment to him??

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

George-Unwin

JohnPhelan is a well respected poster on this forum, whereas I have never heard from you.

You have no authority to lay down the rules here, kindly desist.

Tom Otley, I second John Phelan’s request for dealing with personal abuse.

I will end this post by saying that my family flew in a premium class with BA on Xmas Eve and my wife pressed the call bell for a refill (about 2 hours after the initial drink.)

The steward appeared and said “I am working by myself on this side, would you like me to put a broom up my arse and sweep the aisle as well?”

So much for BA’s experienced and excellent crew.

Roll on mixed fleet.

[batraveller2]

I am not so deluded to accept that there are some not so great cabin crew but on the whole BA has always provided outstanding cabin crew (and yes some make up for the weaknesses of the odd one) and that has what has made it a great airlines in addition to its outstanding club product and excellent lounges. Even in the BA lounges in Scotland, nothing is too much trouble and they are always aware of their regular passengers. I am sure that mixed crew will develop as I was on an early flight and most were keen and accepted it would take time for them to progress. My main point is whether BA are attempting to operate two different types of club service as I dont think businessmen would appreciate a slow service on a JFK route for example, where as I am assuming Vegas is more leisure.

[MartynSinclair]

I really dont think it matters who, what or where a poster comes from. As I have said previously, if VK is WW – SO BLOODY WHAT!

I am all for real name postings, but until then, does it really matter where the peculiar names come from or who types the responses.

The point of these forums is to enable like minded people to enter into discussion, data gathering and information swapping about travel related topics. We may not agree with postings, but thats what makes this forum so lively.

Happy 2011 to all

[batraveller2]

I agree with your response. However, I would be keen to know from someone who travels more regularly than me as to whether there is a mixed crew level of service and an old crew service on long haul in club world as that was what I was led to believe. Although as I have been only on one mixed crew flight, other crew may say different, but my understanding is that they are trained to provide a different more leisurly service. I accept that at times club world (especially outbound UK to US on daytime flights) can seem very rushed, although it suits the nightime flights. I will certainly be asking on my return flight although I suspect I may get a biased response. Happy Neew Year to all.

[CallMeIshmael]

Deplorable double standards JohnPhelanAustralia. In the T5 Chaos thread, you responded with vitriol, specifically naming myself and Alasdair declaring our off thread counter to Krug’s continued off thread remarks to be DISGRACEFUL yet no mention of Krug?
Now you cry foul when George Unwin responds to you (with far less vitriol I may add) when guilty of a similar transgression yourself.

What is it between yourself and Krug? If it wasn’t off thread, I would be enquiring why you are repeatedly so eager to jump to Krug’s defence yet not a murmur when Krug repeatedly and significantly more than any other poster/postee, goes off thread to perpetuate his anti Bassa diatribe.

[VintageKrug]

I have a feeling we have been invaded by the same poster with multiple identities, as well as others being encouraged to troll here from the BASSA forum (to which, for the avoidance of doubt, I do not have access) where I gather my posts have garnered some considerable comment.

Better simply not to respond to the trolls.

They have been proven to have made false and libellous statements on this thread.

They don’t have any credibility.

As single-issue poster(s) they don’t add much to the forum.

Can I suggest we just ignore them? Usually it’s the best policy.

Enjoy the personal attack on me which will no doubt follow this post:

[CallMeIshmael]

DisgustedofSwieqi – So after what period of time or to what degree of reverence must a poster achieve before being able to comment a post was off thread?

The comment made to your wife was wholly unacceptable. I sincerely hope she noted the CC’s name and reported it to the CSD and also handed a complaint form in.

You should also note from my previous post that the BA leadership has abused the previously highly professional cabin crew role by allowing it to become a refuge for displaced bus drivers, baggage handlers, surplus check-in clerks and others to minimise/avoid redundancy costs.

It should also be noted that during the recent disruption the BA leadership pushed VCC agenda to the full to ensure their recency. Fulltime professional crew who had made themselves available were left unused as VCC took their positions.

Regardless of whether the perpetrating CC was a VCC, a refugee or professional crew the treatment your wife received was unacceptable.

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