[CharlesJones]

“The people I feel most sorry for in all this is the vast majority of moderate, right-thinking and service oriented crew members who are currently shut out from a pay rise and promotion”.

But splendid news all the same.

Sorry VK,you don’t fool me or many others on this forum it seems.

[CharlesJones]

“I have booked a few Mixed Fleet flights to test out the service for myself”

Even more cover blown.

Come on VK,you can do better than that surely?

[VintageKrug]

My posts have not set out to fool anyone.

Most regular readers here are in no doubt whatsoever that I am a business traveller, posting on a forum for business travellers.

What exactly is the “cover” you allege I have blown?

I would once again re-iterate the request to play the ball, and not the player.

BASSA has a tendency to avoid discussing the issues by personalising the statements.

By all means criticise my arguments (I have yet to see one statement of mine disproved with evidence, but would be pleased to see that done) but it just harms your credibility when you make unsupported and personalised comments.

[CharlesJones]

Then please feel free VK, to give us some evidence of the routes you mentioned going to Mixed Fleet.

[cityprofessional]

Notwithstanding the fact that I’d still like to know where VK gets his inside information from, as a humble customer, I really do think it is “splendid news” that more flights will be going Mixed Fleet

While there are some fantastic longserving BA crew, there remain many, particularly on long hauls, who have a pretty poor service ethic. The reality is that BA inflight service is pretty inconsistent, and light years behind its (lower paid and less experienced) Far Eastern rivals. Heck, even BA’s (lower paid and less experienced) LGW crew manage to provide a superior and more consistent experience than their sourpuss brethren at LHR

Mixed Fleet promises to be a breath of fresh air. Given that several Mixed Fleet crew are ex-BA mainline, I’m not sure how they can be accused to being inexperienced or ex-shelf-stackers?

[kellner]

Stop claiming that BA will fly 100% of Longhaul flights from LHR. Again, misinformation, even on ba.com it clearly states they will AIM to fly 100% – that is not a cast iron guarantee they will – as your posts suggest.

Cannot for any reason think why anyone would book a ‘mixed fleet’ flight for the sake of experiencing their service unless you have nothing better to do??? And not just one, but a few????

I’ll come clean VK, I am one of those legacy BA crews you feel sorry for since you think I have been shut out from a so called pay rise and promotion agreement. I do not need your pity and I certainly do not need you to rub salt into an already wide open wound by suggesting that everything management does and has done is the right thing. And I am not just talking about the situation with cabin crew, but the complaints I hear every time I go to work from customers about the effects cost cutting has had on them. If you are such a frequent traveller on BA I am sure you may have experienced a shortfall in what you might have expected from BA. If you haven’t, then I would only dream to be on the planes you fly on.

I personally cannot fathom you not being in some way shape or form being linked to BA. I have read your prolific posts on this forum and it seems you seek to advocate the management style of BA in such a positive manner and seem to insist it is the best way to run a service orientated company in the 21st century. I beg to differ. And massively.

As a moderate crew member for BA, who can see BOTH sides of the argument and unfortunately for me I am a pawn in the middle of this vindictive fight. I can categorically tell you that morale is the lowest I have ever known it, yet the service I provide whilst at work (and many of my colleagues) continues to be and always will be professional with my opinion or thoughts about the situation not spilling into the cabin, even when asked by customers how things are and my upshot on events.

I have nothing against my colleagues who are crew for the mixed fleet and indeed I have friends who chose to go to mixed fleet and I wish them well and success on that fleet. But I resent your comparisons between fleets, especially since you have not even experienced the difference (if any). We all do a job, we are all trained to the same high standards, how dare you generalise 12,000 crew.

To summarise, there are some posts that I can empathise with you VK, but alas the vast majority I find rather nimble.

[VintageKrug]

I think you are splitting hairs here, kellner. I have found the quote which does indeed use the words “aim” to fly. So I will change my post to reflect “aim”; always happy to be corrected.

Here is a link to an article in which the quote is made:

http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=4163681

While there may indeed be a handful of flights delayed or disrupted, these will be immaterial, not dissimilar to a weather disruption, and will not impact the ability of passengers to get where they need to go. These would be things like amalgamating one of the NYC services into one flight, and because one week’s notice of action is required, there will be plenty of time to re-accommodate passengers and make alternative arrangements, especially now co-operation between AA and BA is even closer.

Even in the most recent strike, all Gatwick flights and all London City flights ran as normal. 80% of Heathrow longhaul flights ran as normal, 60% of shorthaul ran as normal. This frequency of service will certainly not get any worse in any new unprotected action, and is likely to be seriously improved.

With over 1,000 Mixed Fleet crew, about 1,000 new contract non-unionised crew, and at approximately 1,000 former BASSA members who have resigned, in addition to the VCC ( now numbering several thousands across both 747 and 777) and the many BASSA members who choose not to strike (usually the majority of BASSA members, rather than the “majority” quoted by BASSA when strike ballot number are released, which normally only reveals a majority of those who bothered to actually vote as being in favour of action), as well as those who voted to strike but don’t actually strike (by actually coming in to work, or claiming sickness), BA will have plenty of cabin crew willing to support their colleagues, pensioners and customers in continuing to turn up to work.

The threat of dismissal which an unprotected strike such as is planned by BASSA is a significant deterrent, and one which BASSA would should make clear to its membership. This will in itself mean the strike (and that is different from someone “voting” for a strike”.

It is important to make a distinction between BASSA leadership and BASSA members. Many BASSA members are free thinking, and disagree with the strike. Good for them. BASSA leadership, it seems, seeks to tie up BA in red tape legal action as it realises that its strategy of ”non-negotiation” hasn’t worked, striking hasn’t worked, and there are very few other weapons available to it.

Unite would also be tied up in any such strategy, and that would not be inexpensive for Unite either. BA and Unite realise this, and have both reached a settlement which AMICUS disagreed with, and now BASSA is following, sheep-like.

[redbowtie]

VK I find it increasingly strange why you take such a huge interest in the out comes of BA dispute. Please could you explain why you spend so many hours dedicated to this subject
You seem to be on top the latest news. How could you be when a lot of it has not even reached the media.
As an outsider/ customer you seem to be extremely informed. Please could you let me know where you get all your information from.
Have you crossed the data protection acts to compile your argument?
And why is this argument put forward by you so important to you?
If you believe that Mixed fleet and original fleets have no difference in experience, just pay, why and earth would this bother you as a customer? in fact according to this it would make sense to say you wouldn’t even notice a difference on a mixed fleet crewed flight. Why are you so interested in seeking out the mixed fleet flights? are you unsure if this argument is true?
Having flown BA on both its long haul flights and Shorter flights I can honestly say that BA need to be concentrating on its product, it is so poor so shabby so broken. The crew I have encounter seem to do nothing but run around fixing and sorting things out. And usually in the most professional manner.
Shame on BA for hanging its golden asset out to dry. The company will move on, the profits will sore, but in my mind the heart of the company is being torn out.
May I ask what line of business are you in VK, are structural changes happening at your work place?
Would appreciate your answers.

[VintageKrug]

BA is back in profit thanks to the tough decisions taken by management and supported by compromise amongst every single employee grouping apart from cabin crew.

Remember the salaries and T&Cs of existing crew were never, and will not be, affected by the changes originally proposed at the outset of this dispute. In fact, existing cabin crews are being offered a PAY RISE, which they have not had the opportunity to democratically vote on, as this was denied by BASSA.

There have indeed been savings made in things like catering, but there has also been sustained capital investment in new aircraft, new cabins (£100m on new First, and also money for premium and regular economy), new lounge interiors (as Galleries is rolled out more widely)as well as expansion with new routes (San Diego etc.).

Very few private sector Western organisations have not had to take a good, hard look at their cost base in the past 18 months.

The best way for BA to improve its on board product is to invest more; to do this is has employed a range of strategies to change its cost base, and a part of that was the reduction of one single crew member to align with the (BASSA agreed) numbers of crew who work at Gatwick. BASSA refused (at a show of hands at Bedfont) to negotiate, and so after waiting 9 months BA imposed this change, and this was judged both legal and reasonable by the High Court, and denied leave to Appeal.

The £40m-£60m this single action generates per annum will be part of the solution to returning BA back to profit, as has already been seen, and will enable further revenue-funded passenger enhancements. Examples of this are the potential re-introduction of some elements of shorthaul catering in EuroTraveller, beyond the breakfast already served prior to 10am.

Meanwhile Mixed Fleet is coming along which is the real cost-reducer, all the while BASSA has been diverted onto legal challenges and strikes when some sort of staff organisation could have had a real and positive influence on this Fleet, but which it has now excluded itself. This is the real issue against which BASSA has singularly failed to represent cabin crew.

Further reductions in crewing costs (and these are a very significant component of the cost base) will deliver further profits which will either be available for investment into the customer experience (and that includes crew training as well as the hard and soft product) or for return to employees as profit-related pay or to shareholders in the form of dividends.

The BA Board remains resolute and the Union is in disarray, and is leading its membership, many of whom are so blinded by the cult like BASSA mentality, over the cliff. That is most especially sad sad for people who are part of the legacy fleet, who have everything to lose by striking and everything to gain by settling this dispute.

[kellner]

Can you back up your figure of 1000 mixed fleet crew? Where is your evidence? I know the exact figure for that department and it is significantly less than a 1000 and in fact no where near.

I do not believe for one second BA cabin crew would blindly walk into an illegal strike. Unite would ensure it is water tight if a walk out is called for.

Lets be clear on one thing, this dispute is nothing to do with cost cutting or fighting for survival. Its all about making an obscene amount of profit that will ensure the luxurious life styles of board members and top end management., whilst those at the bottom end of the pile, work harder and harder and for much longer for a lot less money. It would be beneficial to customers and crew if any future profit was reinvested into fitting out all the 747’s remaining in fleet with the new WT/WT+ products and Thales IFE. Will that happen?

I hear the mantra market rate +10%. In my opinion, this is untrue as Qantas UK based crew (bearing in mind QF is a foreign carrier in this country) pay more than BA on its new mixed fleet. How can that be market rate +10% or even competitive?

If there is another cabin crew strike, and it is an IF, those that with hold their labour will be doing so in an attempt to protect their current t’s and c’s (and why not?) and as a protest to management at the way they’re being managed. Does the UK not have striking as a form of protest enshrined in its constitution?

[VintageKrug]

The UK does not have a formal, written Constitution.

There is no “right to strike”.

The most recent legislation governing strikes is the Employment Relations Act 2004:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/er_act_2004.htm

It was introduced by the Labour Government.

Let’s take the example of the previous strikes, which were within the “Period of Protection”.

Most strikes are protected to the extent that if you are dismissed for taking industrial action, the employee has the right to claim unfair dismissal and sue the firm for wrongful dismissal; there may be a financial settlement as a consequence, but there is no compulsion whatever to re-instate that individual, even when they are a member of a Union. While it might not be seen as terribly prudent to sack striking crew, BA was perfectly within its right to do so, even during the Protected period.

If a future strike was to go ahead, it would be outside the “Period of Protection”. Here is some more, referenced, information on the PoP:

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/id/C2EA51B5-DC4B-424F-BF796027622EB4CD

BA would still have the right to dismiss strikers for breach of contract, or possibly under the SOSR (Some Other Significant Reason) legislation. Or by proposing a new contract and within 90 days, if you fail to sign that contract, you no longer have a contract of employment, and are no longer an employee. In that situation you have no right to claim unfair dismissal.

It’s a real shame BASSA hasn’t the courage to equip cabin crew with the facts to make up their own minds about the potential risks..you talk about being certain Unite would ensure the strike was “water tight”, but have you seen any referenced evidence or independent assertion that this is the case…?

[batraveller2]

I am getting rather fed up with VK’s messages and attacks on anyone who disagrees with him as being accused of being BASSA members or misinformed. I am a gold card member (and not through work paying for flights) and frequently travel on domestic and transatlantic routes. What used to make BA good was the outstanding cabin crew, including the CSD and purser who always made the extra effort – especially on long haul. How anyone can say ex Virgin or BMI staff is an improvement – VK is just being provocative as usual.

As usual VK does not respond to queries regarding the basis of his knowledge in case his cover gets blown.

He used to have some useful information but now I believe he is maybe on the marketing board of BA or friends of WW. His comments should not be tolerated as he seems to get away with attacking people and anyone who disagrees with him, and repeats time and time again (but yet he seems to have special rules on BT as anyone else who spoke like him would be banned). How many personal arguments has he created of recent.

Mixed crew is a downgrade of the service and disrespectful to those cabin crew with years of service. I would certainly trust them far more on handling anything than an ex Virgin crew or new recruit.

I will report back on my Las Vegas club trip in mid December – hopefully it will not be mixed crew!

[cityprofessional]

exbatraveller, why is Mixed Fleet a downgrade of service? Are they trained to lower service standards? What evidence do you have for that?

kellner, if morale is categorically the lowest you have ever known, why don’t crew leave BA and work for Virgin or Emirates? They are both recruiting and investing plenty into their products

Just wondered…

[batraveller2]

Less experience

[kellner]

I used to work for Virgin and left as morale was low. I came to BA and despite the current situation I am still proud to work for the company – so why should I ‘leave’ to go back to Virgin or relocate to Dubai to work for Emirates? Whilst morale in the workplace is important and especially in a service driven industry, I have found that the majority of crew I encounter remain professional and do their jobs to the high standards that customers expect from us.

I get a little rattled when people who are short sighted to the issues surrounding current crew suggest that crew just ‘leave’.

As far as I am concerned I am trying to and will strive to protect the current modest life style I have. Like many others in the UK, I have readjusted my life since the economic downturn and cut back on many things. I do not earn a lavish salary, but a UK average that enables me to have a modest life living in London. Why would I leave and not try and protect it first? And why do I find the need to defend my UK average salary to all and sundry? If I was earning an explicit amount of money then fair enough. But believe me, I am on an average full time salary and that is it.

[Author]

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