BA long-haul – where to next & with what? Winter 2015/16+

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Viewing 15 posts - 586 through 600 (of 645 total)

  • dutchyankee
    Participant

    FDOS_UK – 13/05/2016 08:35 BST

    I’m from the Netherlands so fully aware about the size of my country. KLM used to have a number of flights from Rotterdam as well as Amsterdam, and likewise plenty of flights from their regional cities, even with the small populations, most of this has been curtailed and most all now predominantly from Amsterdam. Lufthansa is mainly from Frankfurt and Munich, with their other regional cities mainly being handled by their subsidiaries. Air France is 95% based at two airports in Paris. Their flights emanating from Marseille and Nice are nothing compared to Paris, and being still a partially government owned business, their responsibilities are different and guided often by government dictate. Plenty of their regional international flights are handled by HOP and Transavia France, with few exceptions. We all know how wonderfully successful AF is. I don’t agree that the point raised by Avaya123 is fair. BA has always been a London Based airline, and when they did offer flights from the regions, it was during the days they were not a publically traded company. A business like BA would undoubtedly operate from the regional centers if there was enough opportunity to turn a profit, they don’t, so I would imagine they looked at the business case and therefore opted to feed their traffic through their base.


    BEYbrit
    Participant

    In fact, this has been covered and re-covered in this discussion, but to say that British Airways serves the regions via Heathrow, Dutchyankee, is completely untrue.

    Where are the BA flights serving Wales via LHR? serving the East Midlands? Norfolk? the South West?

    It’s not good enough to say, for example, that BHX is only a two-hour drive from LHR. If a pax is travelling from the UK then sure, they can probably drive. A person travelling to Birmingham (or any of the above regions) for business (and yes, business does happen in the regions too) would not find flying to Heathrow and then relying on public transport (or renting a car, God help em) to be a useful proposition.

    Long live the ME4, long live our EU airlines.

    AF, LH, KL, EK, QR, TK have all done more for incoming business and tourism to the British regions than BA ever have – and they continue to do so, constantly working to improve the connectivity of the British regions to the world and vice versa.


    BEYbrit
    Participant

    I understand why regional UK business is not interesting to BA. I think we should just be honest about it though, and stop saying they do.

    If a Singaporean salesman wants to meet his Birmingham-based client, then he can choose from:

    TK via IST
    LH via FRA or MUC
    AF via CDG
    EK via DXB
    QR via DOH
    LX via ZRH
    SK via CPH
    KL via AMS

    Why would he chose BA to LHR and a National Express bus?


    AndrewinHK
    Participant

    The thing everyone misses is BA is a brand which is a part of an airline group which has hubs all over Europe. BA or IAG has clearly shown it is interested in the UK regions by taking over Aer Lingus, London is the most premium aviation market in the world, so why in the world would you want to move your aircraft to other areas where you can make less money. BA codeshares with AA from the regions, Aer Lingus will help them funnel traffic through Dublin, Iberia and Vueling will continue to help them take traffic south, they have a need to help them with East bound traffic, whether that is Qatar, Finnair or someone else, but I am sure that will be the next progression. It is a business, and a well run business at that, no matter what you want to say about Walsh and IAG, the share price the loads, the yields speak for themselves.

    BEY BRIT – Where is any long haul airline at Cardiff, Norwich….. You cant make money, so they arent there. Birmingham, Iberia is there now, American with BA codeshare, Qatar. Emirates has 1 brand, the IAG group have Iberia, Vueling, Aer Lingus all at BHX, so saying BA isnt interested in the regions, with its own metal, fine, a valid comment, but its codesharing and its holding company is very much interested.


    rferguson
    Participant

    BA from the regions has been debated time and time again. Actually in this thread it pops up more than once.

    – BA has limited resources. It wants to use their resources where it can generate the biggest return. For BA that is currently flights from LHR. If it could be shown that basing a 787 in MAN or EDI and operating longhaul flights from there would generate more of a return than basing it at LHR or LGW they would do it.

    With the acquisition of the ex BD slots BA has plenty to play with at LHR.

    As for branding and whether it should be able to call itself British Airways is one for personal opinion.

    I remember back in the day the restrictions placed on SAS to appease the three countries it represented. They nearly bankrupted the airline and were not relevant to the commercial landscape. For example having to fly certain long haul routes from each of the capital cities of Sweden, Denmark and Norway. Every longhaul flight had to have a Swede, Dane and Norwegian on the crew.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    AndrewinHK – 13/05/2016 10:38 BST

    “London is the most premium aviation market in the world, so why in the world would you want to move your aircraft to other areas where you can make less money.”

    I’m not saying they should – but answer this, if your logic is correct, why dilute your brand by calling it something else?

    London Airways would surely be a stronger brand?


    BEYbrit
    Participant

    AndrewinHK – nobody is suggesting that BA start flying long haul from Norwich or Cardiff.

    I am replying to a post that states erroneously that BA supports the regions via LHR. I think you misunderstood.

    That said, I think an EK CWL>DXB link won’t be too far away in the future.

    I also understand the BA multi-brand offering. However, their options are fairly limited from BHX unless you want to fly to South America via MAD on a less-than daily basis or across the Atlantic using EI and their excellent pre-clearance at DUB.

    The other airlines you mention are Oneworld partners of BA and let’s face it, putting a codeshare on a flight and saying ‘we care’ isn’t really BA serving the regions, is it…. 🙂

    The airlines I have listed are all making big efforts to serve UK regions better. EK, three times a day from BHX to DXB, including daily A380. TK twice a day to IST. LHR, AF and KL multiple flights to their respective hubs.

    Flying long-haul direct from the regions may not be profitable, but taking care of regional passengers and giving them good smooth connections is VERY profitable. But BA don’t do it as well as non-UK airlines.


    dutchyankee
    Participant

    @ AndrewinHK – 13/05/2016 10:38 BST

    +1

    @ BEYbrit – 13/05/2016 10:32 BST

    Your argument is so one sided! How is BA different from any of the European Airlines. All of them funnel their traffic to their hubs. What about the guy in Adana wanting to fly to London, he has to fly via Istanbul because an airline called Turkish Airlines funnels the vast majority of their flights through Istanbul. And that is just one of many regional cities within Turkey with greater populations than most UK regional cities and far further away from Istanbul than sad BHX is from LHR, and yet TK funnels them through Istanbul. The same can be said for numerous country’s national carriers. Some poor chap sitting in Nantes, or Toulouse, or numerous other cities in France wanting to fly to BHX or some other regional cities, guess what, they will have to fly via Paris. Is it only BA that should have bases throughout the UK to fly to each and every European Capital and regional city because that is what makes sense to those living in the regions. Sorry, but if BA could make money with that sort of structure, I have no doubt they would have done it. And yes, long live the ME3, they have certainly helped advance the ease of travel from regional cities, but it is thanks to their onward connectivity from their own hubs that makes it so attractive and avoiding LHR, which I absolutely get, but LHR is BA’s base, and through there is where the majority of their flights will logically be funnelled.


    AndrewinHK
    Participant

    Start a new brand, or continue with a tried and tested brand which has a global reputation (I am waiting for the bad reputation comments), genuinly FDOS what person would advise a business to commit suicide in that way? Brands do not live up to there reputations, that’s what branding is, I still remember the first time I flew Virgin Atlantic and being almost dumb founded at how awful it was.


    BEYbrit
    Participant

    Again Dutchyankee, the point is flying past you and you are not catching it.

    I’m not saying that BA should fly those routes. Why would they? Look back and read again.

    I’m simply saying that you are incorrect when you grandly declare that BA serves the UK regions via London. They don’t.

    Your example of TK is a great example of an airline that does serve it’s regions well.

    I honestly don’t care if BA serves the regions better or not – the regions are well-served by other airlines.

    Many people just need to step away from the BA Kool-Aid and stop saying how they look after the UK.


    dutchyankee
    Participant

    @ FDOS_UK – 13/05/2016 10:59 BST

    As far as I remember London is actually in Britain. As a non-Brit I might be wrong but I am pretty certain. British Airways is a very strong brand which resonates in many corners of the world, so why on earth would they change this. They shouldn’t have to, BA is not any less British simply because they do not fly everywhere around the world from ever city in Britain. No one seems to mind Emirates being called Emirates when they only fly into one Emirate. Driving from RAK to DXB can take longer than BHX to LHR but no one seems to mention this. Plenty of other examples throughout the world, but it’s Bash BA as usual with some of the posters (not you in this case) simply for following a course that generates the most profit.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    DutchYankee

    “BA has always been a London Based airline, and when they did offer flights from the regions, it was during the days they were not a publically traded company. “

    Let me correct some of your errors, in the statement above.

    British Airways Highlands Division was autonomous and not based at London.

    BA was privatised in 1984 and the airline operated international flights from the regional bases until about 20 years later.

    So maybe you’d be better sticking to things you know, like the size of the Netherlands? 😉


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    As a Brit I couldn’t care less what Emirates calls themselves.

    BA is using the British brand, because it is strong and this is the point I will continue to make.

    Personally, I’d be happy for the government to bring in a windfall tax on them, as their fuel costs have reduced substantially and their profitability increased as a result – this would put some money into the tax coffers and do some good for the whole country.


    dutchyankee
    Participant

    @ FDOS_UK – 13/05/2016 11:10 BST

    Thanks as always for your polite reply. I can always count on learning something new from you, and always in such a kind manner.


    AisleSeatTraveller
    Participant

    DutchYanKee

    BA is not going to fly long haul from BHX, too much cannibalisation on equivalent LHR routes (Brum is only a 90 drive (down the m40) from LHR) but perhaps should consider limited routes from Manchester and the two central Scotland airports (though they argue that routing thru LHR is no different from AMS, FRA or CDG or indeed DXB / DOH for asia)

    the whole London Airways debate is bulls***, almost saying that London is not part of Britain (news, it is)

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