BA – I hate to say it …..

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Flightlevel 22 Feb 2018
at 10:39
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  • Stormin
    Participant

    From a regional UK airport it’s difficult not to fly long haul other than with BA because their network of regional connections to Heathrow (and Gatwick?) is great.

    Also, BA do tend to offer accessible and fairly good Club World sale fares (First too).

    Also as our national carried I “want” to like and support BA…..here it comes……but I hate to say it….what is BA thinking by trying to create a seamless premium journey from the regional airport to London and then onward to our final destinations only to cram the First and Business class passengers onto horrible buses for the T5 to T3 (ret) transfers.

    BA has put zilcho effort into “the premium experience” for this part of the journey. Surely a small (and comfortable) private coach transfer could be offered.

    And let’s not forget the T3 First Lounge – a distant cousin to the T5 offering !!!

    We’re flying to Vegas soon in First – the T3 experience spoils it for us.


    rferguson
    Participant

    Trustme use the CX First class lounge in T3. And/or the new QF one. Much better than BA


    SimonS1
    Participant

    From a regional UK airport its difficult not to fly long haul other than with BA because their network of regional connections to Heathrow (and Gatwick ?) is great. Also, BA do tend to offer accessible and fairly good Club World sale fares (First too). Also as our national carried I “want” to like and support BA…..

    What a load of old nonsense.

    1. British Airways is a subsidiary of IAG, headquarters in Spain.

    2. The two biggest owners are Qatar Airways and CRMC (USA) so it isn’t British on that score either.

    3. There are other more ‘British’ airlines like FlyBe or EasyJet. Do they provide the routes you require? If not why not?

    4. Airlines are in business to make money, however there isn’t significant profit to be made from the regions for point to point traffic.

    5. BA operate the same hub and spoke model as pretty much every international airline. There are plenty of other carriers to chose from
    operating from the regions.

    6. Yes BA creates jobs in UK but so does every airline operating here. So if you fly on AA or QR you are still supporting British employment.

    We could go on of course. It may be that BA has a cheap sale every now and then but best that you go into this with your eyes open.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    1. British Airways is a subsidiary of IAG, headquarters in Spain. Why is it called British, then? Surely it’s time to strip that title, if it is not the netional carrier.

    2. The two biggest owners are Qatar Airways and CRMC (USA) so it isn’t British on that score either. Agreed, see pt 1

    3. There are other more ‘British’ airlines like FlyBe or EasyJet. Do they provide the routes you require? If not why not? Maybe they do not have a dominant positon at Heathrow, weren’t funded in growth by HMGOV in the past, virtually gifted a Concorde fleet, allowed to keep Empire routes ….. need I go on?

    4. Airlines are in business to make money, however there isn’t significant profit to be made from the regions for point to point traffic. Ryanair and easyJet (both of whom carrier more pax than BA) might just disagree with you and Norwegian are giving it a go on long haul.

    5. BA operate the same hub and spoke model as pretty much every international airline. There are plenty of other carriers to chose from
    operating from the regions. Pretty much every international airline? No, you mean pretty much every leagacy international airline.

    I agree with the OP about the crapness of the ground experience – it’s rubbish, no other way to describe it.

    As to the sentiment that the OP would like to support the national airline, that’s the power of brand associations for you and BA still has a strong brand, regardless of the lacklustre offerings these days.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    3. There are other more ‘British’ airlines like FlyBe or EasyJet. Do they provide the routes you require? If not why not? Maybe they do not have a dominant positon at Heathrow, weren’t funded in growth by HMGOV in the past, virtually gifted a Concorde fleet, allowed to keep Empire routes ….. need I go on?
    4. Airlines are in business to make money, however there isn’t significant profit to be made from the regions for point to point traffic. Ryanair and easyJet (both of whom carrier more pax than BA) might just disagree with you and Norwegian are giving it a go on long haul.

    The OP was talking about LH routes. Ryanair and EasyJet don’t do long haul and Norwegian don’t operate from
    the regions.

    Plus you don’t need a base at LHR for long haul point to point, the reason BA don’t do it is the numbers don’t stack up.

    Personally I don’t really care whether BA is called British or not, but it sounds from the OP that some people are still easily fooled.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    The OP was talking about LH routes. Ryanair and EasyJet don’t do long haul and Norwegian don’t operate from the regions.

    It was you who asked why easyJet and Flybe don’t provide the required routes, I was giving you some reasons why.

    Norwegian might be surprised to find out they do not operate from the regions, as they have been providing TATL flights from some regional airports since June 2017.


    openfly
    Participant

    I also have to say that I hate BA, but only 50% of the time. The other 50%….I like them!!


    ViajeroUK
    Participant

    “From a regional UK airport it’s difficult not to fly long haul other than with BA because their network of regional connections to Heathrow (and Gatwick?) is great”.

    Not so trustme555, definitely not!

    Living some 25 miles north of Birmingham, BA is not an option for short, medium or long haul flights for me, and others. Why? It is far easier for me to fly from BHX to AMS and enjoy the superb service of KLM than try to get to LHR or even worse LGW. Other hubs like CDG, FRA, IST and DXB are also more convenient than LHR/LGW.

    BA used to operate flights from BHX to New York, plus lots of European cities from a hub at BHX, but no flights to London, all this finished when they pulled out of BHX over 20 years ago.

    I could travel to LHR by train or by coach both with at least two connections, or by road but then there is the potential hazard of traffic delays, whichever option chosen could require an overnight hotel at LHR for a morning flight departure.

    So, BA do not even get considered for any flights, except maybe the `summer specials’ which started from BHX (and BRS) last year to a few bucket and spade destinations, but they only operate at weekends anyway.

    KLM is my first choice and I have to say that their business cabins are much more preferable to BA`s cramped offering any day.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    The OP was talking about LH routes. Ryanair and EasyJet don’t do long haul and Norwegian don’t operate from the regions.

    It was you who asked why easyJet and Flybe don’t provide the required routes, I was giving you some reasons why.
    Norwegian might be surprised to find out they do not operate from the regions, as they have been providing TATL flights from some regional airports since June 2017.

    If the routes were so profitable, Easyjet and Ryanair would be onto it by now. The fact that they have no slots at LHR is irrelevant to LH flights from the regions and Concorde stopped flying donkeys years so I haven’t a clue what relevance that is.

    OK, so Norwegian operate from Edinburgh and Belfast. The day they start doing TATL from places like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and so in is the day I will believe there is a serious point to point opportunity.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    If the routes were so profitable, Easyjet and Ryanair would be onto it by now. The fact that they have no slots at LHR is irrelevant to LH flights from the regions and Concorde stopped flying donkeys years so I haven’t a clue what relevance that is.
    OK, so Norwegian operate from Edinburgh and Belfast. The day they start doing TATL from places like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and so in is the day I will believe there is a serious point to point opportunity.

    Simon, you are displaying high degrees of crooked logic.

    easyJet and Ryanair both started from scratch, with no public funding and no slots at the best airport in the UK to run long haul flights, hence they choose their particular niches. BA was the beneficiary of a lot of government support, before it became a private company and it had existing routes.

    You aren’t a marketing man, are you? Concorde is still a very strong secondary brand for BA, associated with top end travel, that’s why they brand their most exclusive waiting rooms as ‘Concorde’.

    Talking about point to point TATL from Manchester and Birmingham

    There are some TATL flights from BHX in the summer season (Pimera Air) and MAN has flights to various US ports, e.g. BOS, JFK (Thos Cook).


    SimonS1
    Participant

    If the routes were so profitable, Easyjet and Ryanair would be onto it by now. The fact that they have no slots at LHR is irrelevant to LH flights from the regions and Concorde stopped flying donkeys years so I haven’t a clue what relevance that is. OK, so Norwegian operate from Edinburgh and Belfast. The day they start doing TATL from places like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and so in is the day I will believe there is a serious point to point opportunity.

    Simon, you are displaying high degrees of crooked logic.
    easyJet and Ryanair both started from scratch, with no public funding and no slots at the best airport in the UK to run long haul flights, hence they choose their particular niches. BA was the beneficiary of a lot of government support, before it became a private company and it had existing routes.
    You aren’t a marketing man, are you? Concorde is still a very strong secondary brand for BA, associated with top end travel, that’s why they brand their most exclusive waiting rooms as ‘Concorde’.
    Talking about point to point TATL from Manchester and Birmingham
    There are some TATL flights from BHX in the summer season (Pimera Air) and MAN has flights to various US ports, e.g. BOS, JFK (Thos Cook).

    What on earth has Concorde got to do with BA offering point to point long haul flights from regional airports.

    When Easyjet started from scratch they also didn’t have all the legacy employment contracts and industrial practices so it works both ways. If any airline was placed to do cost effective point to point LH flights from regional airports outside London then it would be them, but nada.

    Good luck to Pimera in their new venture, let’s see if they can reach the dizzy heights of filling a daily A321. Perhaps they will be more successful than the likes of United were.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    What on earth has Concorde got to do with BA offering point to point long haul flights from regional airports.

    It doesn’t – please re-read my comment.


    canucklad
    Participant

    I was going to let this topic slip by, alas like an elephant in a peanut factor I can’t resist a nibble…..

    !) BOAC/BEA was a long time ago , yet it’s legacy of government intervention lives on within the BA brand. Most significantly it’s preposterous and skewed corporate strength at LHR, allowing it to manipulate slot strategy in its favour. Also and this is my biggest bug bear, it’s historic position ( government inaction) has allowed it to weaken and then take over its primary competitors , BMI and BCal readily spring to mind. If it wasn’t for Delta’s intervention I wonder what Virgin’s fate would have been ???

    2) Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Birmingham , the UK’s second largest conurbation, yet if you want to be patriotic, the closest you can get to waving the flag is to fly FlyBe to CDG and then use AF? .

    3) At EDI and other “regionals” BA got rid of their staff and replaced them with Outsourced, couldn’t really give a damn people. In fact, the only BA people now at EDI are ex BMI staff who were “lucky” enough to be touped” over . And you can tell the difference !!

    4) Without a doubt, BA definitely play on the “smoke and mirrors” marketing ploy, regarding Concorde. Exclusivity and premium service align itself to the aircraft, even if the aircraft doesn’t fly anymore. The subtle (not) placement of the aircraft outside the hangar is evidence of this!! Or put it another way, do you see any old 757’s hanging about?

    Anyway, having said all that BA is now a private business , and a business has to be profitable, so all’s fair in love and war.

    Alas , and to come back to my original point, the ex-government backed airline will always have the advantage…….Air Canada swallowed up its rivals on a very non-level playing field, Qantas the same in Oz, and you could say the same with AF and UTA, but not sure about the latter.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    The fundamental fail of BA’s current strategy under the pennypinching regime of Cruz is the ongoing outsourcing of critical parts of the operation to parties that lack the experience and competence to attain the standards that one would expect. A call to any of their departments will bear this out.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    I was going to let this topic slip by, alas like an elephant in a peanut factor I can’t resist a nibble…..
    !) BOAC/BEA was a long time ago , yet it’s legacy of government intervention lives on within the BA brand. Most significantly it’s preposterous and skewed corporate strength at LHR, allowing it to manipulate slot strategy in its favour. Also and this is my biggest bug bear, it’s historic position ( government inaction) has allowed it to weaken and then take over its primary competitors , BMI and BCal readily spring to mind. If it wasn’t for Delta’s intervention I wonder what Virgin’s fate would have been ???
    2) Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Birmingham , the UK’s second largest conurbation, yet if you want to be patriotic, the closest you can get to waving the flag is to fly FlyBe to CDG and then use AF? .
    3) At EDI and other “regionals” BA got rid of their staff and replaced them with Outsourced, couldn’t really give a damn people. In fact, the only BA people now at EDI are ex BMI staff who were “lucky” enough to be touped” over . And you can tell the difference !!
    4) Without a doubt, BA definitely play on the “smoke and mirrors” marketing ploy, regarding Concorde. Exclusivity and premium service align itself to the aircraft, even if the aircraft doesn’t fly anymore. The subtle (not) placement of the aircraft outside the hangar is evidence of this!! Or put it another way, do you see any old 757’s hanging about?
    Anyway, having said all that BA is now a private business , and a business has to be profitable, so all’s fair in love and war.
    Alas , and to come back to my original point, the ex-government backed airline will always have the advantage…….Air Canada swallowed up its rivals on a very non-level playing field, Qantas the same in Oz, and you could say the same with AF and UTA, but not sure about the latter.

    Excellent post, Canucklad and I’m pleased someone understands the emotional strings that are being pulled by the use of a heritage brand association indeploying the Concorde imagery. It amazes me that such a large proportion of the general population doesn’t understand how brands work to create/reinforce buying decisions.

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