[stevescoots]

you wouldn’t check for a busted IFE if a bird went in for landing gear repair..:)

that’s explains all the busted broken IFE’s !

[FormerlyDoS]

“I can only assume SimonS1, pdtraveller, FormerlyDoS all work in BA Maintenance or have access to the logs and know what was done on G-CIVX and that it was to do with the undercarriage? There are any number of reasons why a plane could have been in the hanger, and equally any number of reasons a part could fail at any time. Who’s to say that the undercarriage was even a focus on the maintenance?”

If you do me the courtesy of re-reading my post, you will see that I did not say that the mx was anything to do with the landing gear, but that the aircraft had a failure on it’s first flight afterwards, which is a fact.

“And to those comparing this ‘incident’ (if one can call it that) with the engine cowls – are you genuinely trying to suggest the two are the same?”

No. but both incidents form part of a data series, as does writing an engine off by leaving a scanner in the intake.

And by the way, gear retraction problems are not minor. This one ended in a non event, thankfully, but the last thing any pilot wants is a hung leg. I speak as someone who has flown aircraft with retractable gear.

[Bucksnet]

http://www.its-not-its.info

[JordanD]

FormerlyDoS – I did read your post the first time, but as you asked, I did the courtesy of re-reading your post.

I’m still struggling to understand the connection: the flight had an issue after the aircraft had some maintenance completed on it. Right – I get that: what’s the link you’re making?

Are you suggesting that it was shoddy maintenance or that the maintenance undertaken was incomplete and so affected the ability to retract the landing gear?

Or are you simply suggesting that two things happened which may or may not have been connected with one another?

Data should be collected and used appropriately, especially when there is certainty over the data set in use. If you are saying that A caused B (failure of maintenance caused the inability to retract gear), then say so and we can be clear on the issue.

[FormerlyDoS]

JordanD

I am merely starting to build a data set, correlation does not necessarily infer cause and effect.

However, any reasonable person would agree that an incident caused by the failure to secure cowl flaps is concerning and an incident caused by a failure to remove a baggage scanner from an intake is concerning.

The gear retraction is a third, unexplained, data point.

Too early to draw any conclusions.

[SimonS1]

JordanD – no I don’t work for BA, all the details I mentioned are in the public domain. I didn’t make any link between the maintenance and the subsequent going tech on the first flight afterwards.

A tad unfortunate to have three planes out of action in such circumstances. Especially when you consider A320 G-EUUO was unavailable after hitting an air bridge in AMS and 737 G-DOCU had to be written off after losing a battle with a baggage truck in Genoa.

A real run of bad luck.

[SimonS1]

Anthony – yes I can see Titan has been getting good work with EZY recently.

Just as well because according to EZYSource and BASource, Easyjet haven’t had a cancellation since 28th July whilst BA have had 36 in the same period.

As far as consistency is concerned, you tell me. What would be more inconsistent, an all economy Titan plane subbing for an all economy Easyjet flight, or for a 2 or 3 class BA one? I see BA has also been subbing Euro config planes on routes like Tel Aviv and Moscow. Would that meet your expectations as a full service airline?

[JordanD]

@SimonS1 – 06/08/2013 19:16 GMT

A factual correction first: “737 G-DOCU had to be written off after losing a battle with a baggage truck in Genoa”- no the plane was actually repaired and brought back to service after the incident in May 2012, and was only withdrawn to storage earlier this week.

Secondly: as I pointed out to FDoS there is an implication you are making that the issue regarding the undercarriage stems from the maintenance visit it just made. Either be clear and say you believe there is a causal link or avoid speculating that the two are linked when there is no clear evidence to suggest otherwise.

@FormerlyDoS – 06/08/2013 17:48 GMT
Out of interest, which engine write off due to equipment do you refer? (I’m asking because I don’t know of the scenario in which occured and I’m thus interested to read more on it).

[FormerlyDoS]

Jordan

http://www.aviationpros.com/blog/10976291/forgotten-scanner-gets-sucked-into-departing-jet

[SimonS1]

Jordan – all I did was point out that two planes went tech on their first flights after maintenance. I didn’t at any point suggest the issues were related, in the same way that you can’t prove they weren’t. Maybe you will say this is quite normal, however if they were related its not good and if they weren’t then it’s an indicator that the fleet is becoming unreliable.

Re the 737, you are right, repaired at a cost in seven figures (reported elsewhere) and then retired 2 months later.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ SimonS1 – 06/08/2013 19:31 GMT

I am wondering if there are two EZY source websites because the one I have just looked at shows EZY cancellations since the beginning of August and services not being cancelled but operating the following day after a positioning flight ex-UK/CH has arrived to provide the previous day’s service. Such a practice is common to BA and EZY – and is particularly prevalent with EZY. The rather clear difference between the BA Source and the EZY Source is that the former explicitly states that a service has been cancelled whereas on the EZY site you have to read through the verbiage to understand that a service has been cancelled. In this respect, EZY appear less likely to cancel outright, but far more likely to delay by hours or overnight until a substitute plane of their own arrives.

Bearing in mind your repeat comments about BA’s dependence upon Titan, looking back through the archive on BA Source, the most recent date for which I can see a Titan BA stand-in is 16 July whereas Titan are very clearly propping up the EZY summer programme at the moment. After the well publicised maintenance and baggage scanner issues that BA have had over the past few months, one might have expected it to be the other way around.

Turning to your point about an all-Y configuration Titan plane in lieu of a two or three-class plane. To give some perspective, and having looked through the BA Source, the bulk of Titan’s subbing tends to be on UK domestic one-class services with the odd two-class short-haul service to the continent. Very much more rarely do they provide a mid-haul to somewhere with a three-class service like Cairo. Interestingly, BA will only quote for Economy on some services to CAI in late August with a single-class B767 so perhaps they are predicting a Titan wet-lease operated flight (or a UK domestic configuration BA B767?) and are, accordingly, not taking Club or WTP bookings on these services.

Undoubtedly, if you have booked a Club or World Traveller Plus ticket and you end up in an all-Economy configuration, you’re entitled to complain and obtain at least a partial (and automatic) refund on your ticket. There again, and this applies to both carriers, what would your preference be: an outright cancellation and transfer onto a later service with all travel classes, or a service operated to schedule but with a different carrier and a different level of in-flight service? I guess that depends upon whether you are time or price sensitive. Never having flown on a Titan subbed service, I also not know whether they provide some form of Club class in-flight catering at the front end. What this points up as well, is that running a multi-tiered service is considerably more complex than running a single tier service offering as with EZY.

[IanFromHKG]

More fully – for an involuntary downgrade on a European flight, the airline must reimburse the following within seven days:
(a) 30% of the ticket price for flights 1,500km or less
(b) 50% of the ticket price for all flights of more than 1,500km within the EU (except between the EU and French overseas departments) and flights between 1,500km and 3,500km elsewhere
(c) 75% of the ticket price for other flights, including those between the EU and French overseas departments

I must say that if the figure was higher, I would be pressing for reimbursement of the difference between business and economy tickets – and in any case some other compensation (eg miles) as well!

[FormerlyDoS]

AnthonyDunn – 07/08/2013 00:24 GMT

easyJet is a fast growing airline and will need to wet lease aircraft at the height of the busy summer season, especially given that it won rights to compete on the MXP-FCO route and has bases at both airports with 24 aircraft based in Italy. Also it has added a Norwegian route this year.

At the risk of repeating myself, in terms of passengers carried, easyJet is a considerably larger operator than BA, so the complexity avoided by a single class is added by the significantly higher pax numbers and the need to juggle resources to carry them. (60 milion vs BA 35-40 million.)

BA is short of long haul aircraft, whether this is due to poor capacity planning or bad luck with delayed aircraft is a matter of opinion and one I won’t add to; nonetheless, there has been quite a bit of subbing (long haul to shorthaul 767 on DME, for example) and also cancellations, especially on the RUH and DXB routes, to the degree that I would not feel comfortable booking to DXB with them and chose EK instead on my next two trips, as well as my last three.

I understand that you like to stand up for Britain, so why don’t you wave the flag for an innovative, growing and profitable airline, a true British success story – easyJet.

[LuganoPirate]

Just to give an idea. Copied from AVHerald.com from yesterday. Any of these could have led to disaster – well maybe not malfunctioning toilets! – but didn’t!

Tuesday Aug 6th 2013
Sky B732 near Buenos Aires on Nov 21st 2012, aircraft entered thunderstorm cell
TAM A332 near Salvador on Aug 6th 2013, captain incapacitated
Jazz DH8D at Thunder Bay on Aug 1st 2013, cargo door opened in flight
British Airways B744 at London on Aug 5th 2013, unsafe gear after departure
Lufthansa A346 over Atlantic on Aug 6th 2013, malfunctioning toilets
Delta B763 over Atlantic on Aug 5th 2013, engine shut down in flight
Southwest B737 at New York on Jul 22nd 2013, nose gear collapse on landing
Lion B738 at Gorontalo on Aug 6th 2013, hit cows and overran runway on landing
UTAir CRJ2 at Kinshasa on Aug 5th 2013, hydraulic leak
Airbridge Cargo B748 near Hong Kong on Jul 31st 2013, both left hand engines surged at same time
United B738 at Houston on Aug 3rd 2013, bird strike
Thomas Cook A332 over Atlantic on Aug 5th 2013, severe turbulence injures 7
Nok Air B738 at Trang on Aug 6th 2013, runway excursion during rejected takeoff
Qantas B738 enroute on Feb 25th 2013, autoapproach activated at FL390

[LuganoPirate]

Actually the LH toilet problem is quite amusing, especially the comments and the picture.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4667bfaf&opt=256

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