[AdrianHenryAsia]

Get back to the topic in hand ….

As a premium fare paying customer, as far as I am concerned, the service in the cabin and on the ground is being affected by the BA siutation at the moment. The fact that they are proposing to take off one crew member will only impact it further. Having spoken to countless BA staff in the past few weeks, the plans seem to be to take a member from every cabin.

As someone who has a choice, I’m not going to moan about it endlesly, I’ll just vote with my feet and use another airline – its a simple as that.

So, whilst BA Management is accountable to its shareholders – if its regular and loyal customer base is eroded away by their short sighted actions, then they will see a reduction in passengers which is bound to impact it revenue and profit. As someone who has flow with BA for 15 years, in premium cabins, for both business and pleasure, I’m just the kind of person they need to be retaining and infact, they are doing the complete opposite. Having spoken to colleagues, friends etc whom all fly BA, they feel the same. More than happy to accept I am one person, although I’m sure i’m not the only person who feels like this!!

Sort it out BA. Work with your staff, employ some good change management and ditch the hidden agenda. Apparently in one round of negotiations with the unions, Willy Walsh sat on his balckberry for the whole time and then walked out. He has also sent deputies to the meetings who were not in a position to compromise or negotiate – simply to dictate what he wanted to be done. Whilst its his job to manage the business, its a very short sighted CEO that doesn’t listen to its customers and pushes its staff to breaking point.

[Expat_Consultant]

Just who has let the unions get away with it?

Who could have resolveded the issue years ago?

Various incarnations of BA management.

I have little sympathy, as these people are paid very large packages to solve troublesome problems.

They should have sorted the unions out years ago, when they were in a better financial position.

As you sow, so shall you reap.

[JonathanCohen09]

Loyal_BA,

well put and It is nice to see someone who is loyal to BA prepared to say that even for them some of BA’s recent decisions is making it difficult if not impossible for them to continue remaining loyal.

Expat-Consultant also makes an extremely good point as well.

I do believe however that the unions must accept that their members need to accept their share of the inevitable pain and bad medicine that needs to be taken in order to help the airline through this difficult time. That said managers need to manage in a proffessional way at all times and if what the previous poster said about WW behaviour and attitude towards the unions is true then we are in for a long and very turbulent ride.

I think both sdes, management and unions need to grow up, sort it out or else suffer the consequences of their combined actions as more of their premium pax like Loyal_BA start to vote with their feet. At that point, management and unions can fight all they like as due to both sides, if they do not get their collective act together and work as a team their will be no airline left to save.

That would be a great shame for all of them and for us too.

[Hess963]

Hi everyone !!

What a horrible picture for BA ! When the crew get dissatisfied and indifferent–the pax will feel these onboard and alienate them. Those loyal pax will normally bear this for a certain time–but those who are not commited to BA at all–will certainly take any other airline right away.

Yes, this is a bad foretelling. Management against Union—Superiors against Employees—BA against loyal pax——–Mr W. Walsh please take the whole situation seriously–if it is only a simple turbulent ride that will be bearable but a demontrative turning back of loyal pax on BA–that is a catastrophe–BA is not a simple entreprise comparing to a local fish n’ chip shop–its part of being BRITISH !!

[Expat_Consultant]

Hess

Sorry, but I do not agree that BA is a core part of being British.

It is an artificial construct formed in 1973 by the UK government and then privatised a decade later by a different shade of government.

The company did not have to build itself like bmi or Virgin, it inherited assets, e.g. Concorde for a nominal price. A lot of BA’s current woes can be traced back to the labour deals negotiated when it was in the public sector, which neither the unions nor the management have had the will to keep aligned with a changing market over the years.

In short, it is a ‘johnny come lately’ commercial venture that will live or die in a competitive market.

If it dies, it will be replaced by others and will not be missed, the world will not end.

Presently, the company values short term cost cutting over customer satisfaction and it has done for a number of years, IMHO the last large profit was a direct result of this policy, but now the crows are coming home to roost.

I used to be a loyal BA customer and at the peak, took over 50 flights a year with the company, but these days there are many better choices for service delivery.

The final disillusionment for me came earlier this year when I was travelling on a Club Europe ticket and left to find and pay for my own hotel room during wx disruption, when easyJet would have provided hotac as a matter of policy.

I don’t need sub loco service at premium prices, thank you very much.

Fish and chips, on the other hand, is a core part of the national culture and forms part of the British way of life and that local fish and chip shop is opart of the fabric of society, carrying on a long tradition.

[NTarrant]

Sorry Expat but BA is part of being British and you are quite wrong about it not having to build itself. BEA and BOAC built the foundations as to what BA is today, but the world and airlines in particular have changed since BA was formed out of those two airlines.

The BA route network has grown much bigger than it was in the 70’s so it is hardly a johnny come lately as you think. BMI was a small regional airline which was able to expand through the looseing of regulations which allowed airlines more freedom to operate what they wanted to operate and not what govenments allowed them to do. The same can be said for Virgin, Easyjet, Ryanair, Monarch, Thomsonfly et al.

The unions have done their job in securing top deals for staff over the years and management have either given in becasue they are weak or at the time could meet the demands without hurting the bottom line. The unions now have to be sensible and wake up and smell the coffee, the good times are over and work with management, however difficult they may find that to stem the losses and keep jobs.

As for it being missed if it dies, well many would miss it just like some people still miss British Caledonian!

[VintageKrug]

Indeed.

They just don’t make Ads like these anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpf1hjL2m28&NR=1

[Hess963]

Hi everyone !!

I just want to stress some statements clearly. Any local shops or ventures in UK –whatever revenue outcomes or size of this enterprise– just the fact that this give British labourers work and help the people earn their income to fulfill the basics in life–is in my eyes a honourable deed to public welfare. This is a kind of Britishness I want to stress clearly–if I made an unclear example of a local fish n’ chip or whatever kind of food stall or food shop–this is definitely not my intention to lessen their contribution to our economy in general–as well as the moral/dignity of this as having his/her own venture for living.

BA as it is today is a venture originating from former entreprises like BOAC and BEA as NTarrant have stated earlier. These are not just companies but British people all over the world — especially in those times when a lot of Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and in other British Territories around the world — were or still can identity with these aviation companies as a part of British life and defining it British as well.
That is why it is not easy to be indifferent over its struggling–especially when British labourers are striving to cope with the developments already implemented or going to be imposed.

It is obvious that not only the BA management but the Unions also have to sit down and work together( with the best intentions for all ) to get the best outcome for the labourers and in the big picture for the company..

Therefore should such outcomes or disillusionments as Expat_Consultant has stated must be stopped and overcomed or their will be an exodus/turning backs on BA which ” British Airways” will lose its Britishness and the public eye will no longer identify this company as part of their British life — and therfore be degraded to just an insignificant company which nobody cares less !!!

Yes, it is a company which can be closed and renamed and exchanged–but in the eyes of the British public–it is not just like that !!
As we– and there is still a big number in the population–would not tolerate such dissolute and disturbing development.

[AlanReynolds1]

On BA16 out of Singapore last night, the Cabin Services Director (steve) introduced himself, shook hands with pax including me in club Class and was seen to be helping actively. He seemed a little surprised that I was aware of the announced change in CSD duties. One of his staff – when I asked if she liked the involvement of her manager – later told me she welcomed him doing this as it exposed him directly to the views of customers which she thought was a good thing. So, maybe, there is some staff support for this change. When I mentioned the need to make savings if the company in which I am a small shareholder was not to go bust, she said they had rallied round when Rod Eddington had asked in 2001/2002 post WTC and Pentagon bombings, but the firm was going about it the wrong way this time. Very difficult to know for me where the truth might lie. At the AGM Willy Walsh told us the firm and Unions had signed a confidentiality agreement on the negotiations until there was an outcome.
Service was efficient last night. But, now BA has cut some services I used, I have been on Aer Lingus, LOT and Air Asia in the past 2 months. It seemed to me the cabin staff did much the same job on all the flights. IF (and i say IF) the BA employees are getting more than their peers, I have not yet seen a display of duties which would support that extra pay

[WillFrancis]

British Airways CEO earns over 730,000 per year, over 60,000 per month. Let him adjust his own salary to the market rate as he is demanding of his staff.

[FlyboyBA]

SOLITAIREPLATINUM – Please enlighten us with what BA are supposed to do after 9 months of negotiations where

– BASSA failed to meet the original negotiating deadline.
– BASSA refused to look at BA’s confidential financial information so have no real idea of the state of the company.
– After missing the negotiating deadline BASSA then refused to negotiate at ACAS – in fact they even refused to even sit in the same room as the other cabin crew union CC89.
– BASSA are accused of bullying CC89.

After months of talks with no agreement BA have no alternate but to impose – what have they imposed?

– No CC needs to take a pay cut (but a company wide pay freeze is implemented)
– No CC will need to work any more hours (SH will still do highly inefficient trips)
– No threat of compulsory redundancy (VR available)
– No change in the generous allowance structure
– No change in the disruption agreement
– One head off long haul flights, but actually still have the same number of people conducting the service as the CSD now has to work for a change!

If BASSA agreed to the changes, you would still have many Cabin crew earning twice as much and working considerably less than the industry standard. Present crew seem to be fairly minimally affected by the new deal.

[RoadKing]

I should probably not get involved in this, not being British, but perhaps just because of that.

It strikes me how you people get into the company, one blame the management, the other the staff, a third the union.

When fact is, those who are to blame are us, the travelers.

There used to be a time when I paid £600 (unless I bought the ticket half a year in advance, no cancellation, no frills) to SK for flying between the two bigger cities (well, by our standards anyway), a 45 minute flight…

Then, once upon a time, competition were let go, other airlines came in, airlines where pilots and staff realized that a flight of 45 minutes really isn’t their opportunity to show the traveler who was on the golden stage. Consequently, prices dropped, and they dropped significantly.

This is what have happened over the last decade, companies have entered the sky, who realize that flying for 45 minutes should not be a luxury for the exclusive few. We see this in all kinds of businesses, money counts.

The “national” airlines have to some extent survived this, as the no frills airlines have not yet dared to try longer flights, intercontinental flights, but it is coming. In Scan you will next year get no frills intercontinental flights to NYC and BKK.

Thing is, we as customers, are just not willing to pay for the staff to keep their salary. So what is management going to do about that? What is staff going to do about that?

In an open market, any business have to adapt to what the market is willing to pay for their product. No more, no less.

This hurts for the giants (BA, AF, LH, I mention SK as well), because they have first and foremost been used to have a monopoly. Second it hurts because they realize that people don’t want to pay £100 extra for a dry sandwich and a glass of wine. Third, it hurts because it slowly occurs to them, they ain’t a luxury service anymore, but an advanced bus tour.

Of course I can pity the staff that lose their jobs, have to cut their salary. But then, I don’t find it acceptable that I have to pay out of the eye to keep a pilot (extreme example in SK) with a salary of approx £160000 a year, not forgetting lesser work hours than his fellow pilots in the business, let alone a very very reasonable retirement plan.

Granted, staff in SK is extremely well paid as a consequence of Scan being a high salary place, but I suspect you can find similar figures elsewhere.

I used to be loyal to SK (in fact I am still a gold card with them), flying extra hours just be loyal. But I have given them up. I fly BA because of price (roughly £1000 cheaper in club) and convenience (6 hrs shorter flight to US West).

As I said, I pity the people losing their jobs, salary and benefits, but I just don’t find it is worth my money (or my company’s money).

[Expat_Consultant]

Blaming the passengers for the performance of the airline sector is just crazy.

Markets change and suppliers have to adapt (a la Porter’s 5 forces etc.)

BA has not effectively changed and that is the company’s problem.

By the company, I refer to the executives, managers, staff and unions.

It is about time the company shaped up or shipped out.

[DJ_London]

Everyone has an opinion about this at the moment. It is such a shame that the Unions and BA are not able to work out a deal for the crew, which will be beneficial to them as well as the airline. In my view, if this cannot be achieved then BA needs to do all it can to save the airline and if that means having to sack all the crew and create a new company to employ the crew without the interference of the unions then so be it.

[d1rector]

When I read all the criticisms or comments about BA by other people over the years, one point stands out. BA’s USP is the quality and service of its cabin crew and staff, ie people (and – less visible but of even more importance – the quality of flight deck crew: who do YOU most feel safe flying with?)

The problems, when they arise, always seem to be with management’s attitude. I suggest the company needs to recognise, optimise and support its key advantage – which just happens to be the factor that in the customers’ total experience matters the most.

[Author]

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