BA Cut crew on Long Haul flights

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 48 total)

  • VintageKrug
    Participant

    *rolls eyes* yet again

    Now you have reached your 27th birthday, perhaps it’s time to change the record?

    The above poster hasn’t even flown the airline in years.

    I fly the airline every week.

    The fact that your close friend was made redundant by British Airways is unfortunate. I am sure he has now moved on to a new role and is similarly effective in that role.

    Wishing the failure of the airline, so that others may be similarly afflicted as your friend was with redundancy, or worse, losing their job due to the failure of the company, does seem to me to be twisted logic.

    The above poster, self-identifying as a Clinical Director at the Department of Health, was forecasting massive numbers of DEATHS in this country and in New York from swine flu. Quite an overreaction, n’est ce pas?

    And perhaps the overreaction exemplified in the posts he made on flu (a topic he should know quite a bit about professionally) extends to his hobbies, or hobby-horses, and especially those about which he is obviously rather ill informed.

    BA has had to make some tough decisions recently, some of them unpopular. But they are essential for the survival of the airline, and are the right calls to make in the current environment.

    No other airline is better placed to take advantage of an upturn than BA; the business model means it will always suffer most in a downturn and profit most in an upturn.

    This continual castigation of the airline is unwarranted, and frankly is beginning to get tiresome.

    As is the personal identification of anything connected with BA with my “handle” here on the BT forum.

    Please, before you put finger to keyboard, do think of the children.


    NTarrant
    Participant

    Well said VK, spot on!

    Sorry Mark but you are a Director in your proffession of Health but not a director of a company. If you were a director of a company and plc to boot you will understand that what VK has said about being accountable to shareholders is true no matter how unpalatable that may sound. As regards your championing Virgin, well the brand is well established and Richard Branson is a good marketable comodity which people want to be associated with. But if you read some of the other threads about Virgin you will see that they are not quite as some would make out.

    I have only ever travelled Virgin (air) once and that was seven years ago so I would not comment on the service now, other than the service I received then was good. You say people are deserting BA in their droves, how would you know you don’t travel with them. I had seven flights in ten days in Club Europe and six were full in both Club and Economy, the other about three quarters full. Your arguments just don’t stack up, all based on a disgruntled former employee who is your friend.


    SOLITAIREPLATINUM
    Participant

    @ VK-

    I fail to get your point. Why are you attacking MarkRoberts on such a personal level?

    The real question in my opinion is whether or not BA’s management is capable of dealing with the current crisis effectively.
    My personal verdict is a clear NO.

    We all care for BA and its staff and want them to survive. But it is the lack of leadership in BA of real analysis of what should be done in order to minimize the effects of the current crisis.

    Clearly, one decision after another is NOT well received by passengers or the workforce.

    I cannot judge what you say about Mark and if it even matters, but he makes very excellent points.
    Employees that are happy and proud to work for an airline do show it and it makes a great difference.

    Maybe BA’s management should listen for once and learn from mistakes- and than be brave enough to reverse some policies.
    But the way it looks now, they probably won’t. I hope it is not too late for them!


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Thank you for your support NTarrant.

    SOLITAIRE, as you will notice if you read back threads in this forum, MR has made repeated trolling attacks on me. He closely identifies me with his attacks on BA as if I was some sort of BA Manager. See the opening paragraph of his post for evidence of this.

    I am not connected with BA in any way, apart from being a shareholder.

    To date I have resisted commenting on some very offensive posts he has made about me personally. Viz:

    MarkRoberts9 “VK obviously takes it up the A.r..e for BA, but certainly seems to get off on his link with them. Tell him to Get a room for them both, n stop being their inane mouthpiece”!

    Given the tone of that quote referring to me (and there are others) I think I have been purely factual, and rather modest, in my response.

    Now can we please get back to a discussion of Business Travel by people who actually travel on business, rather than discussing me all the time.


    Airpocket
    Participant

    Mark, while I don’t quite agree with you re:Virgin (I think they’re over-rated)I think you’ve got a firmer grip on the whole managerial/directorial ethos. Perhaps you wowuld consider employing Vintage Krug as a summer intern next year, seeing that he has a lot to learn?:o)
    And, as for predicted deaths from swine flu, let us not forget that the epidemic is still in the air, as it were and it could mutate into a far more virulent strand.
    I,too,happen to be a BA shareholder and am appalled at the way the shares have dived.
    As for personal attacks, VK lets not conveniently forget you’re a prime offender and have, in most cases, justifiably attacted the ire of other posters, incuding BA cabin crew if I remember correctly. Keep the snide (“rolls eyes”? Please!), arrogant remarks coming and the rest of the posters will continue to throw it right back at you. Play nice and I’m sure the rest of the posters will, too.


    JonathanCohen09
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    yet again a thread that starts of with some interesting posts with some good points from both sides degenerates into a slanging match between the usual suspects which is a great shame.

    Vk, to the best of my knowledge I have never posted a personal attack on you? Yes I may have challenged some of your opinions and posed some questions about the opinions that you have. You have not responded to any of them and I am not sure why. Yes BA like all airlines has to make some very tough decisions. I do not see any reason that we should not debate here whether or not we think they are the right decisions or not?

    I would really like to know what you think of BA’s decision to charge premium passengers £60 per sector to select a seat for example? I also asked a question about what might happen to the share price in the event of a cabin crew strike or poor premium passenger numbers, again no answer. You then make what seemed like a flipant remark, in response to another post, about there being a mystery person with you in the ‘Concord Room’ again no response when questioned about it.

    I have no time for the personal attacks made on you by MR or by you on him. I don’t care why or how it started and it most certainly should stop. That said it does not mean that myself and other posters should not be able to ask you for your opinion or to justify any remarks that you might make that may run contrary to what we believe. Surely that is one of the reasons we have this forum.

    I get and respect that there are many posters out there who support BA come what may and that is their right just as those of us who disagree have the right to make our views known as well. This can and should be achieved by both sides of the arguement without resorting to the kind of personal attacks that we have seen again in this thread.

    I would like very much to fly more regularly than I do with BA but some of their recent decisions continue to make that very difficult for me to do. Perhaps if BA supporters out there could answer some of the points that I have made then I could be persuaded to make BA my airline of choice again as opposed to using them, at the moment, only when I have to.


    marckirby
    Participant

    Jonathan

    Well said I agree with every word.

    VK?


    Hess963
    Participant

    HI everyone !!

    Well Gents!! I hope you have vented a bit now! Let’s come back to the main subject.

    If crews who are especially involved in these cuts have to cope with such harsh developments–they would quit their job and find a better one. But those who can’t for whatever reason–have to adapt these unwanted adjustments. So their moral is definitely not in the positive side and definitely not for BA. So how to fight this–that is one of the aspects what W.Walsh and his team have to find out rightly and quickly. Definitely not any prospects against the crews or employees of BA in general which can alienate them as it is right now ! And with all this and other topics which are very sensitve and are highly prioritized for the company–the leadership has to prove–that they are the right ones for the job–or step aside in modesty for somebody who can give the right decisions and bring BA again on the map.

    Why is BA in constant attack of the BT frequent users?? Because we fly and care for BA–just as straight as that!! Yes, of course we can argue over AF/KLM or LH and their policies–but as far as I can see and read in this forum–nobody really care or want to write about them comparing to those who wants to contribute for BA. It is in a way a positive picture that BA gets a good PR here –for just being talked about and in everyone’s sight over certain issues. I am sure LH or AF/KLM will be glad if they get some free PR like this. Alright–it is not always a positive PR–but it is still one–and PR companies pay a lot of it to get such attention–which we give BA freely and unconditionally at the moment.

    SolitairePlatinum and Mark are right about the subject of happy employees who feel bonded and care for the company because they get these feelings back from their superiors or the company itself. These emloyees make the difference and show it to the pax. So the pax get this good feeling and service–they tend to stay to this company/brand which they feel great and distinguished and are ready to pay the price tag. This means also a good performance in the share values as a lot of satisfied pax fly with this airline—the other side of this has been described already by many frequent users before.

    There are a lot of issues which BA management has to retrieve or improved at once–otherwise it will be definitely too late for any salvations

    Just one word to all !! –especially to those users who have been clashing over subjects which we really have overcome now–please stop sniding–it just looks pathetic and really feels like in school with all those bullying!! It might be sometimes funny and amusing–but in general–it is miserable. Just keep it faire everyone !!

    To VK: who is that person in the Concorde Room?? Is he somone important enough to contribute in these discusions over BA??
    If not please leave such comments out in the future or just post them in miscellaneous. If you want that other user stop commenting on you or subjects from the past then please give your share and do not give any reasons for them to do so. You know that a lot of folks here in BT forum appreciate your knowledge of these and thats–but you are reaching some levels to others which they can’t or wouldn’t like to tolerate anymore.

    To Airpocket: You wish that VK or others stop arguing with stupid, arrogant remarks–then please respect this for your own sake as well. I was appalled when you described the female F/As of VS as “bimbo” and other inappropriate use of language regarding female crews. As for me it is alright to comment in some issues in a sarcastic tone but always sense the balance–as there are a lot of people with different backgrounds and level of tolerance in the world-which your wordings might hurt them personally and you did not even mean it–I hope so !!

    Yes, everyone can write and give his/her own opinion over everything-but please do not forget your or our manners regarding other individuals here–we still can argue decently and with mutual respects


    JonathanCohen09
    Participant

    Hess,

    spot on again with your comments.

    If the usual suspects were to concentrate their collective energies and expertise to try and make a difference and perhaps get BA to listen to the not inconsiderable amount of quite justifiable critisism of some of their recent decisions, instead of fighting and arguing and slagging each other off then maybe we, on this forum, can help in some small way to get BA back on a path that will bring passengers flocking back to them instead of pushing them the other way and into the arms of other carriers who will gladly take their business!!


    Hess963
    Participant

    Definitely right Jonathan!!

    Even small and insignificant pax can do make a difference and yes,..we have a voice even though it is only marginal–but sometimes the small ones gather to a mass which than create a bigger voice and influence


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    Agree with the above.

    So why is BT always so easy to give PR to BA, & no other airline features in “minute by minute experiences”? Its is completely biased to one Airline, never an advocate or critic for the Customer.

    BT should be raising these issues on our behalf if so many write on here about the same, & certainly BA should come out to explain themselves? There is no involvement of either with the customer, how ignorant.

    I raised problems with the SQ seating & Aircraft ranges down to Australia, & having sent a letter to them, have an offer of an appointment with the Regional Manager to discuss these issues.
    I specifically referred them to the posts on BT to see the groundswell of views. As promised i will post the reply for all other concerned readers who expressed the same issues

    Why not BT raising these issues with their developed contacts?
    With the right words, to the right people, as individuals we can gain some access, and some of us try…

    But, BT should have much more pull, so why not use it?
    Surely this constructive approach, would be more productive, and we can also cut back the “glorious Bulletins”, that are so dis-associated with the reality of BA customers, they appear delusional!


    NTarrant
    Participant

    To a certain degree Mark you are right that BA does get more coverage than other airlines in both the magazine and on line. But you do have to realise that as it is the UK based version of the magazine and therefore relects the readership which is mainly UK based.

    You say “cut back the “glorious Bulletins”, that are so dis-associated with the reality of BA customers, they appear delusional”. If you don’t use BA you don’t know. As a regular BA flyer no they are not delusional and they are the reality of the experience of BA customers.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    BA’s management is in a tough position right now, and has to make some very difficult decisions to make it through the crisis. As every other privately owned or public listed company also has to do right now.

    The fact of the matter is that BA pays its crews almost double what competing UK airlines do. See the weblink below in this thread for the factual details of comparative pay scales.

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6466748.ece

    It is a sad fact, but supplementary pay and working practices will have to change; hopefully this will also permit employees to share in the good times via a bonus/incentive scheme which will reward positive behaviours, and hopefully improve service levels.

    Many people in many industries will have seen personal incomes static, falling or worse in recent times, while being asked to deliver at the same level. A re-adjustment of pay and conditions even more of a necessity in the highly cyclical airline industry.

    But cyclical is just that; when the airline profits, crew should share in that profit as well. Unions are so entrenched in that they make this difficult to accomplish.

    There have indeed decisions made which could have been handled better.

    BUT there are specific instances where BA Management *has* listened and reacted.

    See the thread on BA Club Europe seating. BA changed tack and adopted *the exact* 2:2 policy I recommended in my letter to them on the matter, which I published here on this forum.

    I am hopeful once the immediate necessity to cut costs is past, other polices might be similarly reviewed.

    I did not get drawn into the debate on paid for seating. The very first post in that thread, and several subsequent posts, were highly aggressive towards me personally, which seemed entirely unreasonable. I am not prepared to be baited. I therefore declined to comment further in such a poisonous atmosphere and stopped posting for a week because of that.

    A senior person from BA was indeed in the Concorde Room (note the significant spelling with an “e” which according to Tony Benn stands for “excellence, egalite and entente”). You mentioned this earlier in the thread.

    It would be inappropriate for me to identify the individual. As a Gold Card holder, like other regular customers, I am sometimes invited to events or end up chatting to senior people on my travels and am able to raise concerns directly. I am no different from any regular customer in any other organisation.

    But my information is factual. It is based on personal experience. It is often from the horse’s mouth. It is from a regular user of the airline. And it is not designed as a trolling attack on any single poster on this forum.

    I have been able to have such discussions on several occasions in previous years with Willie Walsh and others. I have either conveyed my sense of their approach to the matter or have referred to what they said to me directly; most of these posts have been met with a tirade of personal abuse against BA Management or, most oddly, me personally.

    Given the often vitriolic castigation of anything supportive of BA on this forum, this is not somewhere I feel I can have as open and honest a debate as I would like. Ultimately, it is forum users who lose out because of this.

    Rest assured BA’s Management is very much aware of the issues which are regularly set out here, and I am always vocal in communicating many of the more reasoned concerns set out here. I am often privately critical of BA, however given the polarisation often seen on this board I seem to spend my time countering the blatant mistruths peddled on here.

    It just gets very tiresome when people who seem to have a total downer on anything UK owned and operated keep up relentless, often unfounded or third hand hearsay criticism without proposing solutions.

    There are others who have a personal axe to grind on behalf of a third party made redundant by BA what must be a while ago now. Neither of these are regular users of the airline. Often they put out a whole load of negative sweeping statements which are just not true, and certainly do not reflect my actual experience as a customer.

    The unions are central to this debate and have hardly been mentioned here as they are dragging their feet on modernisation.

    Some discussion of the union role in this is essential for a balanced debate, and I would welcome reasoned comment on that point.


    Hess963
    Participant

    Hi eveyone !!

    To VK: Please do not get this wrong !! But have you read your own comment lately. Regarding the poisonous atmosphere and highly aggressive comments towards you. Just be honest ! You gave your fare share to this progress as well–do you really think people would just attack you verbal blatantly for nothing ! We do not know you !! But apart from your highly helpful information and knowledge to certain issues–you can really annoy anybody with the snobbish attitude.

    For example–if you are a Gold card/premium status holder of BA have the opportunity to meet senior staffs of BA, chat with them etc. It is nice for you. But not all Gold card customers get the chance–so you might be one of the few lucky BA’s customer. But what is the importance of telling us that you know someone important and have the opportunity to raise such concerns and issues to them–only to give the users here the feeling you are making yourself important–instead of sharing us real progressive facts.

    You say that you are a normal customer–for me personally– with your knowledge in the airline industry and approach to certain senior staffs of BA –you are not !! You have access that others might not have which is positve and still though you give the others the negative feelings towards you. Have not you detect that although you regard yourself as a normal customer–you sound more likely to be absolute bias on BA’s regard and sound more like one of those in Waterside than a normal BA gold customer in T5 lounge ?

    If you want that your comments is not a trolling attack to any users here–then please read your comments first before posting it–then perhaps you might see that some wordings are not appropriate and daring too which evidently will come back to you !!

    You say that there are users or parties here who are anti BA –well isn’t this a platform to share are pro and contras to whatever subject is relevant for us here. Don’t you think it will be onesided, if we only say good things to BA ?

    Regarding BA management of very much aware of these issues against or for them–it will be very nice of those ladies and gentlemen to answer some issues here directly and probably end any speculations over certain highly debated issues.


    JonathanCohen09
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    VK, on a personal note I wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to the points that I raised that you had up until now not commented on.

    While I am a little frustrated that you do not feel able to say more than you have, I understand and respect the reasons that you give. I for one, am prepared to take you at your word that you will continue to raise our legitimate concerns with your contacts at BA. Perhaps you could persuade them to come onto the forum and comment directly, even if they wish to remain anonymous.

    Hess, once again some wise words from you and to VK, I agree with Hess that there are occassions where perhaps on reflection you have used language that with more thought you might not have used. That however does not in any way excuse the fact that some on here have been incredibly vitriolic to you in some of their posts. You are absolutely right to counter any misinformation that is put on the forum and I hope you will continue to do so. I will also continue to raise any concerns that I have about the way that BA is being run. that does not mean I want them to go out of business. I said in a previous post that I would like to use them more often and I mean that. Maybe you can help me to achieve that aim?

    VK, sorry to mention you again but I wanted to say that I will comment soon on the union situation as you make a good point and it should be discussed, unfortunately I have run out of time and my flight has just been called.

    I like VK, would like to hear from people on this topic as we cannot only blame the management for the current situation, the unions need to do their bit to help as well.

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