[VintageKrug]

Indeed I agree Loyal_BA.

There is a world of difference between the many hard working and professional cabin crew and their highly disorganised, incompetent and out of touch Union branch, BASSA.

Whilst as in any organisation there are a few bad apples, and incidences of bad apples acting up have increased of late, the focus of disquiet from myself and others on here has been squarely laid at the feet of BASSA and not cabin crew per se.

I also maintain that proper Union representation is important in lower paid, cyclical industries such as aviation. However, this must be business minded, pragmatic and supportive of both profit-making and customer service; BASSA/Unite is none of these and is now beneath contempt in my personal view.

Oh, and I have never visited Waterside, skychai.

[Grandholmrobbo]

Just a quick word on my family’s recent cw flight LGW/MCO/LGW.
The menu – redundant, very few items actually loaded, both ways.
Wine – never got first choice, red or white.
In row 3 out and 4 back – did not get first or second choice main courses.
What we did get was dry and tasteless.
A huge disappointment, shame, but still enjoyed the experience.

[skychai]

The majority of BA cabin crew at Heathrow are BASSA members. So who exactly are you getting this second to none service from?

Never been to Waterside VK? Ask Willie for an invite, it’s a lovely HQ.

[MartynSinclair]

Grandholmrobbo – I have travelled the LGW/MCO/LGW route for over 12 years several times a year. You will find this route is pretty unique as most if not all cabin crew hate this route. Full flights, plenty of excitable children, demanding parents – its a recipe for disaster.Very occasionaly you get a decent crew who smiles, provide a semi decent service. All the aircraft are old, seats falling apart and IFE from ancient times. Having flown a mixture of BA and Virgin out of Gatwick, I have now changed to BA into either MIA (+3 hour drive) or NYC (+ Jet Blue) from LHR and the service is excellent and professional.

[Ausline]

BA catering is okay but thereis no real reason why the J food cannot be plated on board. QF do it and their catering is excellent in J, 72 J class pax out of LAX on the A380 to Mel the other day, no real delays and food was. Also fresh scrambled eggs made on board for J – pre order card, teh best brekie for ages. I know that both SQ and EK plate on board and I am sure other carriers do. Overall presentation is much better and food tastes fresher. It’s a sad fact but BA crew might just have to work a little harder, It’s a very competitive market out there..

[skychai]

QF have a dedicated “Galley Operator” who runs the galley and has no involvement in the cabin, BA do not. QF have invested in New aircraft, galleys equipment and catering, BA are lagging behind. In fact BA are cutting costs out of catering like you would not believe.
Just take VK’s beloved Dorchester Afternoon Tea service on BA. Thousands was invested in this new product and the tools to deliver it, including costly training days for crew! A shiny new cake stand for your tea cakes was ordered…gosh. All scrapped, because of cost.
BA crew are quite capable of working on board a 747 just as much as QF, but it’s difficult to deliver a decent service when the product and equipment used is sub standard especially for J class.

[VintageKrug]

First on your point about union membership, there is a big difference between the BASSA leadership with their vested interests, and a Union member (though that membership is increasingly dwindling as crew get fed up with the poor leadership of the BASSA reps).

That is exactly why I and others make the distinction between BASSA and cabin crew; every workforce has concerns, especially right now, but BASSA has gone about this cackhandedly, ending up with a worse deal for crew and has done itself, UK plc and BA untold harm.

Second, on the point of older aircraft, BA does not use exceptionally old aircraft on the Caribbean/Florida routes; these are all 777s ordered in the late 1990s.

BA is in the process of replacing its fleet right now and is at the peak of its aircraft age cycle; the entire London City fleet is under one year old, for instance. Several new 777s and A320s were delivered at LHR last year, new 777-ERs arrive from September and the 787 and A380 fleet begin arriving from 2012.

All Club World cabins are under two years old, New First is rolling out and the as yet unseen WT and WT+ will be revealed shortly, including new IFE.

With this interior refresh will come new steam ovens.

The cake stand was specifically mentioned to me as one of the items which would be re-instated; every business has had to take measures to reduce expenditure and when so much had to be spend training volunteer crew to keep the airline flying against a Union deathwish, then it seems entirely reasonable to me that certain aspects of the new initiatives could not be rolled out fully.

So, in summary, newer aircraft have been delivered and continue to be delivered in the coming years, new interiors will be evident very soon in all classes, new AVOD has been rolled out in the past few years with a completely new Thales system starting shortly.

The lie to your point about BA “lagging behind” in investing in “new aircraft, galleys equipement and catering” is exposed by the facts I have quoted above, and indeed within your own post where you yourself state “thousands was invested in this new product and the tools to deliver it”.

It’s not perfect right now, but it is going to get better once cashflow and demand improves, and the evidence of that improving demand is already showing through, modestly.

[MartynSinclair]

Thai uses old aircraft on the LHR-BKK route yet their First class product is extrmely fresh.

BA Gatwick CW to Florida (I dont use BA to the Caribbean) is not as starched as the Heathrow product. 777’s are old.

BA should enhance their Gatwick CW to match Heathrow!

Glad to hear that cake stands are taking centre stage in this disucsion. Lets hope the cream doesnt drop out of the cakes and stain the carpet!

[VintageKrug]

Actually, the BA 777s used at Gatwick are all delivered post 1997; that’s not really “old” in aircraft terms, especially when they have had a single owner like BA.

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/British%20Airways-active-b777.htm

The oldest G-ZZZs are actually LHR based (I think these are the ones with the tiny screens in F).

[MartynSinclair]

…………….the interiors are old VK, the 777’s are old VK, compared to average fleet age. If at least the interiors and products were equal (Heathrow and Gatwick) then it could be considered as an equal product.

[VintageKrug]

Have you actually flown exLGW longhaul in the past year???

I have, once to BDA Bermuda and once to TPA Tampa. Both times I had the NGCW fully flat beds – installed less than two years ago (though was upgraded to F on the BDA flight).

Lounges are great, F lounge is smaller but a quiet retreat, and food on board was equal to LHR. I actually prefer LGW crews as they are generally more relaxed and being less Unionised than LHR crews (support at LGW for the strike was less than 2% of the workforce) are free to serve customers more effectively. I believe the product is broadly equivalent, although the LGW arrivals facilities are less good (though a shower and brekky is still available).

exLGW is certainly considerably less expensive than exLHR, with leisure fares to Sharm El Sheikh with sale fares starting at around £850 return. In Club World.

Average BA 777 fleet age is 10.5 years, and none of the the LGW examples is older than 11.5 years…..

[EU_Flyer]

Qantas does indeed plate its food just before serving, as does EK.
It’s a nice touch but the food doesn’t taste any better for it and once on an EK flight from AKL to SYD with a full J class load on the A380, dinner took 3 hours to serve and the flight was only 2.5 hours in duration. They didn’t have time for dessert. Infact, the looks of complete desperation and stress on the crew’s face made me feel rather uncomfortable.
Food presentation should be secondary to taste. We fly to fly, not to eat.
What is important to me personally is that the food tastes ok, is served efficiently and doesn’t lead to my needing medical attention after landing.

[EU_Flyer]

Qantas does indeed plate its food just before serving, as does EK.
It’s a nice touch but the food doesn’t taste any better for it and once on an EK flight from AKL to SYD with a full J class load on the A380, dinner took 3 hours to serve and the flight was only 2.5 hours in duration. They didn’t have time for dessert. Infact, the looks of complete desperation and stress on the crew’s face made me feel rather uncomfortable.
Food presentation should be secondary to taste. We fly to fly, not to eat.
What is important to me personally is that the food tastes ok, is served efficiently and doesn’t lead to my needing medical attention after landing.

[biarritzsurf9]

Dear all,

many thanks for all your comments on my original picture in this thread posted of our meal from GIG to LHRT5 last week. The meal was we felt very disappointing for the Club World product and brand. The beef was very tough and all the vegetables extremely overcooked. The fact that the beef was so poor coming out of Brazil was particularly disconcerting as the beef in Brazil is usually of top quality. We had to send the meal back and we discussed the meal at length with the CSD who was very helpful and apologetic and provided an alternative risotto.

The problem with the meal as Vintagekrug points out is that the meals are heated in the plate on which they are served. This means therefore that the vegetables are re-heated with the meat or fish and are inevitably overcooked.

On Qantas they heat up and plate up seperately which creates a restaurant quality plate of well re-heated and presented food. It is sad that the unions and notably BASSA are standing in the way of upgrading this part of the service to Club World.

The meal that was served to us last week was unfortunately an embarrassment to the Club World brand and I have been in contact with Customer Relations at BA over this.

[MartynSinclair]

VK – yes to MCO only. I dont use BA to the Carribean – CW to MCO – try it then comment! No issues with the superbGatwick lounge either.

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