[MartynSinclair]

Trying to understand exactly what a “behind the curtain” passenger ought to do when the call of nature happens, if the aisle is blocked behind them due to BoB.

I think it is unreasonable to expect them to wait for the aisle to clear, irrespective of whether there are 1 or 2 loos at the back. Passengers have no choice but to go forward, through the hallowed curtain.

I also think crew are being totally unreasonable saying they have to use a loo that is inaccessible.

The other week there were 2 brats on board in the last row of club (parents sat together on the other side). Trolleys were blocking a rear end and a front end attack on the loos.. Brats just barged their way through – lesson learnt.. when a brat needs to go… even a trolley wont stop them..

[GivingupBA]

I completely agree, Martyn, it’s unreasonable to ask passengers to wait if the aisle is blocked – and for that matter if there’s only one toilet for all the Y passengers. (If I was in Y or had a child in Y I would go through/ send them through the curtain without any hesitation, because of this unreasonableness). And the longer the flight, the more urgent the need. But the first unreasonable act, of course, is BA leaving only one toilet there.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=865371]I completely agree, Martyn, it’s unreasonable to ask passengers to wait if the aisle is blocked – and for that matter if there’s only one toilet for all the Y passengers. (If I was in Y or had a child in Y I would go through/ send them through the curtain without any hesitation, because of this unreasonableness). And the longer the flight, the more urgent the need. But the first unreasonable act, of course, is BA leaving only one toilet there.[/quote]

You get to the heart of the problem.

When people listen to Cruz espousing that BA can be all things to all people, it is convincing because of the quality of the presentation.

It is also a logical fallacy, as this issue (and others) reveal.

Taking an airliner and separating it into different classes of service is not new and it works – a pax/lav ratio of 20:1 in C and v 50:1 in Y is sustainable and appropriate for a ‘premium’ carrier.

When you change the paradigm in one cabin and say that cost is the driver, why provide 2 loos, when you can add two extra seats, then the impact of that decision starts to impact the other cabin, that is being sold at premium prices, in this case by the ingress of Y class pax to use the C lavs.

Another symptom I’ve experienced is when the C class crew member has to help the Y class peeps with the BoB, as they’re not coping – I failed to get a cup of coffee after dinner for this reason, despite being on a cash ticket in CE (connecting to a long haul flight). Failure to deliver a core part of the service proposition is dangerous.

On easyjet, a single class A319 has 3 lavs for 149 pax, 50:1 (unless you are a pedant), but on BA (a supposedly premium carrier), the OP reports 100:1.

It isn’t sustainable and if they start to play this game on longhaul, it will be bad news.

You can differentiate service levels on an aircraft, but you cannot mix and match two different paradigms, without comeback.

[openfly]

Just flown BA from LGW-AMS-LGW daytrip. No probs with Y pax using the CE loo. On the outbound the curtain was at row 5 but only 3 rows were CE so they didn’t close the curtain. On the return there was no divider curtain at all. I think CE was row 4. If I had booked CE I would have been rather miffed particularly when BA.com states among the “advantages” of CE is “your own private area”!
Plus, “Bunfight Boarding” on my last Group 1 boarding for the last 4 LGW flights.
BA Premium at LGW just doesn’t exist or match LHR…it’s a con!!

[Cheeryguy]

Having re read my post, I can see I wasn’t making my point as clear as I would have liked.
Irrespective of the amount of lavs, even if some are indeed mooted for use by certain groups of passengers (those for F and J for example). There are always people who do not with to wait their turn in their booked class of travel.

[quote quote=865259]

Cheeryguy wrote:

The curtain is/wasn’t a deterrent to people using the forward lav

Given that it is apparently not BA policy to reserve any particular lav for any class (on shorthaul), why would the curtain be a deterrent to people who need to use it?[/quote]

[canucklad]

British Airways has an advantage over other carriers when it comes to the curtain, a moveable pliable soft barrier……in this case to performing a natural function that even the Queen ( I assume, a courtier doesn’t do it for her) has to do on a regular basis.

Still , after all the long years I’ve lived on these fine and pleasant islands I’ve observed, learnt and finally concluded the following ………

Brits are inherently compliant , don’t rock the boat, better not to make a fuss than make a spectacle of yourself is the mantra of us Brits !
Add in this, the compulsion to queue. It’s as if it is built into our genealogy, to the extent that if one doesn’t exist then seek an opportunity to create one.
Then add in our class insecurities and the associated obsessions with those limiting belief systems , and you create the perfect environment for a curtain based society .

And actually, many here lament BA’s continuous cost cutting, and race to the bottom., so on that same note they should get rid of the curtains altogether. After all, experience tells me that a tut-tut and a stern look from the CE cabin crew would send the Y passenger scurrying back ,similar to a border collie barking at their flock !!

[RHMAngel]

In my experience, I think it’s crew dependent more so, plus a nice demeanour in one’s moment of need combo goes a long way.

I’ve sat less than 7 rows from that C class loo and that darn BoB trolley is still only 2 rows past me. I’ve nipped to the front fast without being stopped or winked through after seeing a trolley plus 22 seated rows dash make no sense. But it’s not a habit but rare few occasions.

But I’ve also witnessed a few occasions of stewards/stewardess being firm in sending Y pax back with a please wait. Or at worse a back row C pax firmly pulling the curtain over with an indignant huff.

A recent short haul on KLM with two loo and sandwiches with drinks tells me BA has sadly raced to the bottom…

In long haul when work is paying, I’d be a seethingly quiet pax if Y kept coming into C or J 😉

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=865482]Having re read my post, I can see I wasn’t making my point as clear as I would have liked.
Irrespective of the amount of lavs, even if some are indeed mooted for use by certain groups of passengers (those for F and J for example). There are always people who do not with to wait their turn in their booked class of travel.

FDOS_UK wrote:

Cheeryguy wrote:

The curtain is/wasn’t a deterrent to people using the forward lav

Given that it is apparently not BA policy to reserve any particular lav for any class (on shorthaul), why would the curtain be a deterrent to people who need to use it?

[/quote]

No, I understood your point.

My response was, if there is no policy to allocate lavs to a cabin, why would people be deterred by a curtain. Your observation that you saw people ‘getting in the crew’s face’ is not entirely surprising when the crew are making up their own policy on the hoof and it is not consistent with the policy (or lack of) implemented by other crews – frequent flyers on an airline are usually well versed in its service delivery standards – that’s one of the problems for mixed fleet, their regular customers are often more knowledgeable than they are about what to expect – this is a training issue and not the crew’s fault, in most cases.

Of course, some people do feel that having a shiny card entitles them to do what they want, but the elephant in the room is that the airline is densifying shorthaul aircraft and trying to be a low cost carrier one side of the curtain and a premium carrier the other – it will not work unless they decide to fit locking barriers between the classes.

Long haul is a different situation, my comments do not refer to those flights.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=865624]

In long haul when work is paying, I’d be a seethingly quiet pax if Y kept coming into C or J ?[/quote]

This is an important point – regardless of who is paying (and I understand your point to be you travel on your employer’s shilling for certain flights), having some relative peace and quiet should be part of the deal. If you are being disturbed by pax from lower classes constantly passing through, then it is irritating and one feels short changed.

The same must hold true for the CE pax who are suffering because BA has decided to densify their aircraft and Y pax are reacting by using the front loos.

[LuganoPirate]

[quote quote=865248]My point about the forward lav was made on a practical level – I overheard a conversation recently on a BA flight…..

FA – sorry sir, please use the lav at the rear

Pax – the cart is blocking the aisle and I need to go now

FA – you’ll have to wait[/quote]

These were the exact words I heard on my recent flight with BA to London. And the passenger went meekly back to his seat!

I can’t help but feel cattle are transported under better conditions than humans on planes – though we are more fortunate in not being led off to slaughter on arrival!!!

[DerekVH]

There is such a simple solution to this. Just as the BOB service starts in Y, position the J trolley by the curtain and leave it there!

[LuganoPirate]

In general I try and avoid the bathrooms on planes altogether. They’re small and cramped with little headroom. I go before and if needed on landing.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=865799]There is such a simple solution to this. Just as the BOB service starts in Y, position the J trolley by the curtain and leave it there![/quote]

Sorry, that suggestion is silly, for various reasons.

BA could install a rope across the doorway but then again, as it is apparently not the airline policy to segregate lavs, that’s not going to happen, is it?

[esselle]

Hey FDOS

A rope. What a brilliant idea!! They used to do that, and they had a polite little notice, something like “First class only beyond this point”.

Then they decided “stuff it, who cares anyway”, and it all changed.

Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

[fatbear]

I can’t think when I have ever needed to use the toilets on a European short haul flight. Simply don’t drink too much beforehand or on the plane, and if necessary make sure you go before you board….

[Author]

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