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[NTarrant]

I don’t know what kind of business you are in Geohoveuk and you don’t say how many are in your “team”. You do have to get this in perspective, is you team unionised? If not ask yourself if they went on strike does that mean you have failed. But does it not tell you something when all services are operating at LGW? Loads of support there. And as someone said earlier, they have operated more out of LHR than on a foggy day.

Sorry but you clearly have no real idea of running a large business is about, read what VK and Jackley says. Willie Walsh is right not to give in to these union bullies, the bullies sat in their nice warm offices whilst a small number of ill informed cabin crew freeze their nuts off out on the cobbles! The union is right behind you!!!

These crew changes should have happened long time ago, way before they took things away from the fare paying passengers, such as hot towels in Club Europe, sandwiches after 1000, etc. So don’t you think geohoveuk, that BA have looked after its staff infront of passengers during these troubled times?

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[MartynSinclair]

This forum is extremely interesting and there are one or two people who really shine brightly in terms of contributions. NTarrant is one who i give ‘resepct’ to as is ‘VK’ who seems to be in all places at one time. This place is a far better place for having contirnutions from these 2!

However, the recent comments aimed at Geohoveuk about “no idea of running a large business” are way of mark in connection with the BA / Unite dispute. Why should the likes of Geohoveuk (hell of a name there) and to that extent myself have our travel plans be put is dissarray just becase Walsh and Unite are playing ‘how to run a large company – how to destroy a large company”. The plain and simple facts are that Unite have wthdrawn their labour, BA are unable to operate effectively.

Its not about giving in or who is bullying who, it is about finding a solution. if we take VK and NTarrants view, then there is never going to be a solution. Its like a child and a parent at logger heads about about how much time the child can spend on his PS3.

Personally i think BA needs a fresh leader as this action can not be made to be the focus of a general election but on the basis that Walsh will not step down, then I beleive termination notices should be sent to every employee refusing to work. Failing this, then put the company into liquidation and start again like Swiss have done.

It is an absolute disgrace that a face off of this nature can occur in British Industry, timed as it is, just before a general election. Somebody earlier on said the only people that count are the business onwers the shareholders – all I know is that it sickens me to the teeth to buy airline tickets and fund anither country’s economy, when my country UK, England, Great Britain or what ever other term we use, needs my business more than a foreign airline.

My only message is to Walsh and co, Unite and co, stop beinmg arrogant little sods, get off yourhigh hirses and sort this problem out like adults. Its not about ‘winning a game’ its about peoples lives and their abiloty to pay mortgages as well as being able to work and get to work. I am sure a group of 11 year olds could sort this mess out far better and quicker than the current band of players who are just too arragant to see the wood from the trees.

Amen – let move on…………………….

[FaroFlyer]

I find it a little strange that some subscribers to this forum seem to think that the changes needed are new, and that it has all been rushed. BA, and WW, have been trying to make changes to save the airline from continuously teetering near the brink. True, the financial condition is no the same as some American airlines have experienced, but equally true is the fact that a Chapter 11 type reconstruction, and re-writing of all contracts, does not exist in the UK.

To my knowledge there has never been a major quoted plc that has entered administration and emerged as a pre-pack, as the facility does not exist. If it did then it would have happened some time back.

The unions know that there must be change, or eventually receivership will take place. Both parties have been “in negotiation” for well over a year, and Unite / BASSA are using the term negotiation as a delaying tactic. They have gained their members a full year respite already. Negotiation has failed so it is time for management to manage and move on. As happens to the rest of us, if we don’t like the changes then we must all “move on”. Yes, it is tough for the 45 year old mentioned by geohoveuk, but so what? It is also tough for the guys on Tyneside now that the Redcar furnace is closed. Striking did not stop that happening, and nor should it.

This dispute is about unions delaying the implementation of urgently needed changes to bring BA working practices into the 21st century, not stuck in a 70s timewarp. Timing of a general election should be of no interest to company or employees, but is being used as such by a union struggling for it’s own long term existence.

[metheman]

It really is interesting reading these threads..We all have our opinion which is everyone’s right, but as in all disputes you never hear the whole story..

I have just come back from a day with the BA crew at Bedfont Sports ground,supporting my wife ..PLEASE…They are NOT Militant’s or as was stated in another thread ” very vocal aggresive badly led staff “..They are LOYAL workers,many there for 30-35 years who are very sad at having to take this action..They ALL and I mean ALL want to see there rights to work not abused by WW who appears hell bent on changing the company..Never forget it is the Workers who are the Union and the Workers make BA..The support was fantactic,but as I said earlier NONE of them was happy with the strike..

Some older CC were in physically crying at the thought that this great airline that they have worked for, proudly, was being changed without any thought…As to the amount of flights departing, it is strange that one plane spotter who had been there all day saw the same 747 take off and land 3…YES 3 times after approx a 35 minute flight..Strange..I dont know of any destination that a 747 flies to and back within 35 minutes..read into that what you will…I hope , and ALL the CC I saw today, hope that there can be an agreement reached soon,so that hundreds of loyal and proud BA empoyees can get back to doing what they do best, and that is serving the public with the best service on what is the best airline..So don’t judge everyone with what you read in the newspapers..Give them some understanding whether you agree with the strike or not..Thanks for taking the time and effort to read this article and hopefully this thread will not be repeated..

metmanmart

[MartynSinclair]

Faroflyer – all very interesting and Martin Priestnall – i know how it feels having worked for with an american corporation for 21 years prior to redundancy 9 years ago. The rhetoric is all interesting, but at the end of the day, both sides are stuck – unwilling to budge – and on the brink – so, what do you do – just hang loose until one side decides to make a move – or try something new.

Maybe the way BA is being run is a recipe for disaster and maybe Unite have their own agenda, but still there are approximately 40,000 lives directly involved and will be affected by the next move. So, yes BA need to implement change, yes the unions need to accept change, but hey, its not happening so what happens next – it seems that nobody knows, but bottom line is we all care.

So for G-d’s sake somebody, take the intiative and do something positive!

[INSATRVLR]

FYI….

Just flew BA on one of last days of strike Nairobi to London Heathrow in ECONOMY. Flight attendants were primarily pilots. Service was attentive, efficient, caring, timely, personal. Came away reinforced that economy has the option of being a pleasant experience.

Then, connected to AA London Heathrow to Chicago in BUSINESS. Flight attendants were cranky, inefficient, rarely available…ended up having to share an entree with my seatmate after “order was mixed up” and “they ran out” sans apologies or acknowledgement.

For me, when everyone and everything works well to get you into that seat on that airline, the flight attendants are last point of remembrance and have the ultimate opportunity of public relations, salesmanship and WOW delivery.

A strike with passengers behind striking workers is the ultimate victory. Can you even envision that….

[Potakas]

Maybe AA is the best us airline although us carriers are far away from European standarts ..

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[Potakas]

geohoveuk you are right, I came back home yesterday with a 767 european config and it was in a very bad condition,the plane was dirty the seats were torned and i couldn’t see any tv as it was overhead and i was seating on a window seat, but i ate wonderful. I just hope for better days after the summer when they will receive the 787’s,first of all staying loyal to an airline and pay sometimes more money has also the advantages from their loyal programe but mostly you fly with them because you enjoy it.

[craigwatson]

geo…” what you’re saying INSATRVLR is that you were served by ‘scabin crew’ who are paid roughly £100,000 per annum”.

I can guarantee you the pilots that were on that flight were making nowhere near that figure, that is a senior Captains pay, the FO and SO’s are on an average starting salary of £38000 including flight pay.

I see nothing wrong with BA spending 40-50 million in the short term to secure billions in savings in the long term.

I’ve heard so much talk about unite/bassa complaining that management is turning BA into a lost cost carrier, and all they are trying to do is “save” the BA they know and love!! what a load of tosh!!

They are employees, they are there to work… end of!! Management are there to manage and as such they can send the company in any direction they and the shareholders want.

[MarcusUK]

And has everyone forgotten that the B A Pilots earn an average of £109,000?!!!

I am sure they are much more capable of taking a cut, or reducing their perks than the Cabin staff, especially trying to live in the London area…?

Regardless of the very heavy debate & emotions being slung around on here now, it remains a fact that permanent damage has been done, by both sides, to the reputation of the Airline, & confidence to book ahead with BA.

For me, as a Director, Any Management / leadership to have ended up in such a position, in such blatant public conflict with its employees, has failed, & should be removed.

I hear from the city, that patience is running out with BA now, & that it is commonly concluded that if BA do not return to profit within 12 months & show indications of this progressively, that The Company may well find itself not being seen as viable anymore.
This is increasingly being reported through BBC / The Times Newsnight, when you look at notable City Analysts in the big Banks starting to call time on BA.

Certainly, if we are all businessmen on here, the principles of good practice management would be familiar, & are not evident at B A.

[AdrianHenryAsia]

MarcusUK – I couldn’t agree more.

Any management team which goes to this lengths to publicly alienate its workforce, especially within a service industry should be sacked. A business is only as strong as its employees. BA may well return to short term profitability after this fiasco however I don’t think we’ll see the longer term brand damage for some time.

Its a real shame as the hard product is good, however I (like many others) differentiate on the service both in the air and on the ground. A unhappy workforce are not going to live your brand and keep the customers coming back, they are never going to go that extra mile and never going give the impression they love their job – all key elements for any business providing a service where there is a degree of choice.

As a director, I’ve made the choice (where possible) to put my organisations business with other carriers as I can’t run an organisation which relies on air travel using a carrier I a) can’t rely upon and b) fundamentally disagree with the way in which the whole situation is being managed.

[NTarrant]

I am suprised at the comments “as a director” etc. If we are all business people, then we will know that not all situations are as clean cut. The situation now is there are no strike dates and the union and BA are talking.

It can be argued that you would not use any form of transport or company that is unionised. You could say you are not going to use the tube as it might go on strike. What about flying LH, the pilots have been on strike, are they off the list as well?

Whether you agree or disagree with the way Willie Walsh has handled the situation or indeed Unite/BASSA, the facts are that the strike was not well supported, there are no new strike dates and the union and BA are talking.

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