[londonlad]

Big dog

I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a misinformed post. Did the financial crisis completely pass you by?

Airlines are tied to the wider economy, is it any wonder they suffered, like many banks, after the crisis? IAG was one of the best performing shares last year, and record profits are being forecast for 2014/15.

[BigDog.]

Being a BA insider LondonLad I understand your desire to offer them every single support regardless. However although you may not like it, my post is nevertheless factual.

I would prefer to present a more balanced perspective, though, when one is faced with the myopic dogma of the few Walsh/BA zealots then a selective, yet factual, view is appropriate to counter the blinkered, pro BA psychosis and spin.

[BusinessBabble]

BigDog @ 22/01/2014 12:40

As a frequent reader, and now reluctant poster, I agree a balanced factual view would make more interesting reading on this forum.

Willie Walsh became CEO of BA in October 2005, and at the start of that month the BA share price was approximately 293p. Since that date the stock performance of the remaining European legacy carriers has been:

Air France / KLM: -30%
BA / IAG: +49%
Lufthansa: +85%

We all know the issues CEO’s of the European legacy carriers have had to deal with over this period as well as those specific to BA, and based on the share price relative to it’s peers Willie Walsh has done an OK job. The fact he is still CEO of IAG after 9 years on the job demonstrates he has shareholder approval.

[BigDog.]

Yes BusinessBabble, however it takes between 1 year and 18months for a new incumbent to begin to deliver on their own strategy.

Although Walsh gratefully collected the Airline of the Year at the world airline awards in 2006, the work to win it was done by his predecessor.

When Walsh’s own initiatives should have started kicking in the share price was 574p.(It then went down to below 130p, thinking it was cheap bought in)

[Senator]

Hum…interesting….

In August 2011, I wrote a long post in a different forum titled: “American Airlines, a tale of two airlines”. I had completed five segments in a two week span on AA with a mix of domestic First, Caribbean Business and one Y-cabin flight between Reagan National (DCA) and JFK. By the way, there is remarkably little to differentiate the first two products, but I digress.

Long story short; it went from awful on a Curacao (CUR) to Miami (MIA) flight, to downright brilliant on the connecting flight to Newark (EWR).

Since Easter 2013, I have completed another 15+ segments on AA including Transcontinental, Hawai’i and Transatlantic on the new kit (B77W) all in Premium cabins.

Yesterday, I updated my original post and apologised to American. They are good IMHO, great value for my money and I have now (almost) completely replaced United with American after some awful flights in First on United Express this past summer.

[BusinessBabble]

Using your arguments BigDog, the average BA share price in the period 12-18 months after he became CEO was approximately 464p. A comparison with the remaining European legacy carriers on a similar basis is:

Air France / KLM: -67%
BA / IAG: -6%
Lufthansa: +11%

This basis puts BA even less % points difference behind Lufthansa.

[BigDog.]

BusinessBabble, one needs to also add back in the dividend yield (over € 1.5 billion since 2006) which LH paid to investors in most years against Walsh’s only dividend (5p per share in 2008) thus far.

http://investor-relations.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmin/downloads/en/annual%20meeting/2012/LH-Dividend-payments-20120509.pdf

Methinks if Walsh had nous and avoided the IB folly (and bonus) he would be up on 574p instead of down at 430. Likewise methinks KLM will long rue tying up with AF. Tie ups which appear more for the CEO aggrandizement than creating shareholder value.

Senator – having business interests in Indiana I use ORD and UA, am hearing more good things about AA so will be trying them in March.

[AllOverTheGaff]

EmeraldAA – 21/01/2014 19:21 GMT
Excellent hard product let down by catering and poor crew.

Senator – 22/01/2014 15:59 GMT
Long story short; it went from awful on a Curacao (CUR) to Miami (MIA) flight, to downright brilliant on the connecting flight to Newark (EWR).

Hello EmeraldAA (And Senator)

I flew with AA from LHR – JFK – AUS and then from AUS – JFK – RIO and finally GRU – JFK in November of last year, all in business, two in the new cabin and one on old AA.

The only consistency I noted was the below average service from the crew on all the legs, everything seemed like a chore and indeed, I too found the food and drinks wanting for both quality and quantity.

It bewilders me that airlines spend billions on new aircraft, refitting old planes, advertising, marketing and then let themselves down at the coal face with disinterested staff.

Without wishing to be patronising to the crew who post on BT, it does rather appear in the main that airline crews treat their passengers as though we get in the way of their schedules, it is much rarer these days to find anything resembling a ‘good’ service, of all my flights last year I would say on average the service was not up to my expectations, even though I was flying on a variety of airlines to a multitude of destinations.

I’m sure to hear criticism from some on here, but the only airline which I find offering consistency from their crew is Emirates, the rest vary from excellent to awful, given the huge levels of investment from the aforementioned airlines (AA in particular), the CEO’s of these airlines need to give their HR and training people a shake and get the crews to not look upon high-revenue paying passengers as an inconvenience, but as valued customers whose expectation is to enjoy a decent level of service.

Rgds.
AOTG.

[ExecPlatAA]

Well put AOTG. All that investment and poor crew training/attitude can make it meaningless (or at least not earn accolades). Don’t get me wrong, I fly a ton on AA and would not have, if I thought that the service and value for money was awful all around. I do think they are trying hard and for the most part they take good care of me. I recall a few months back when I was on my way to ICN via DFW from SFO, and DFW was struck by a snow/ice storm, they went out of their to accommodate me (unsuccessfully – 2 days at DFW- long story!). Net, net – the hard product needs to be accompanied with excellent training and that was lacking – in this instance.

[BusinessBabble]

BigDog. – 22/01/2014 16:24 GMT

Fair point, and so if we add dividends paid since 2006 into the mix:

AF / KLM: -44%
BA / IAG: -6%
Lufthansa: 32%

So it puts BA in more or less the same % points behind Lufthansa as in my first post. Anyway, one can pick numbers out to prove any point but all-in-all BA / IAG seems to be performing pretty middle of the road compared to the competition over the period.

Anyway, that’s enough from me for the day, just trying to make a point when it comes to a balanced debate!

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Hi EmeraldAA

Oh my word, that is a long journey! Is it shorter to India if you fly westbound from the West Coast?

[ExecPlatAA]

Hi Alexpo1 – its almost the same in either direction. CX has a decent 1 stop connection and so does JAL (into Delhi). For AA metal (for eVIP upgrade Eco-Biz, Biz-First), Europe is the only option as thier Asia destinations have cumbersome India connections.

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Plus the fact you don’t lose a day of your life in the process LOL

[nmh1204]

unfortunately, there’s no direct flights between SFO and BOM, but United do fly direct from EWR to DEL

[IanFromHKG]

Interesting that your experiences were somewhat in contrast to mine. My last trip between BOM and LHR in BA was in business class – didn’t get my first choice food until I (politely) kicked up a fuss, tired seats, and (to my astonishment) no AVOD. You can read my review of that flight here: http://seatplans.businesstraveller.com/airlines/british-airways/user-reviews#comment_id_7273. Note the summary comment: “several very avoidable niggles, a couple of which (champagne at the bar and shortage of food selections on board) smacked a little of cost-cutting. These were offset by an unusually good crew, by and large, although the way they occupied my foot space – particularly when they were talking about who to refuse first choice food to and selecting me – was both irritating and unnecessary”

I also took two AA domestic flights (one in first, one in coach). You can read those reviews here: http://seatplans.businesstraveller.com/airlines/American-Airlines/user-reviews#comment_id_7270 and here: http://seatplans.businesstraveller.com/airlines/british-airways/user-reviews#comment_id_7273
Note a couple of the comments I made: “I would again mention the friendliness and attentiveness of the crew, who really made an effort to ensure everyone was well attended to” and “[the female cabin crew] also came through the cabin at regular intervals. Altogether, again without being overly friendly, she was pleasant and very efficient. I was impressed. I normally don’t enjoy American domestic flights, but for an economy trip this was as good as I could have hoped for”

I also note that in a review referguson – who as many will know is BA crew – write a review in which he said ” their new seat on the 777-300 looks great. Combine that with wonderful food and crews that seem to take a real pride in their company and AA really could be a force to be reckoned with on the transatlantic market”

It certainly does seem the case that AA are inconsistent, but then there are many comments on here that the same is true of BA.

I would pick up on particular comment you made regarding the lack of meal selections on AA – as noted above, I faced exactly the same issue with BA. However, there is absolutely no reason to miss your first choice of meal on AA since they allow you to pre-order – https://www.aa.com/i18n/utility/pre-order-meals.jsp. Now of course this does mean that the unprepared who do not do so face a drastically reduced likelihood of getting their first choice – on my last AA flight something like two-thirds of the cabin had pre-ordered. However, that is an entirely avoidable scenario.

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