[SimonS1]

[quote quote=936846]

SimonS1 wrote:

That is the passenger’s responsibility and has ever been thus.

100% agree

But it’s far from clear who takes responsibility when things go wrong.

This forum is littered with stories of less than satisfied customers who have been shunted from pillar to post , because the codeshares /JVA’s allow the airlines wriggle room to duck responsibility

FFP’s not being added to accounts

Lost bags

Delay compensation /Missed connections

And the list goes on

Trouble is governments allow airlines (especially legacy state carriers) to operate as a collusive oligopoly , its not always about price protection !

In this case, the common sense thing would have been to advise the lady to get to the Irish embassy ASAP for a renewal and book her onto a later flight.

But who rebooks her , or more specifically who has the functionality to do the decent thing ? QR or BA or EI who shouldn’t have processed her all the way to Doha in the first place.

Clear as mud !![/quote]

I think we will agree to disagree then, as most of those things are perfectly clear.

Missing baggage – well that is covered by the Montreal Convention
Delays/missed connections – covered by EC261 or consumer legislation in relevant country

As far as the missed flight is concerned, well it was a no show with QR, if you miss a flight then the normal protocol is to speak to the operating airline and ask them to rebook you. So if the terms and conditions of the ticket allow for changes then traveller could approach QR and ask them to rebook.

Some travellers may of course choose to take out travel insurance to ease the pain, that way they deal with the insurer who may mitigate their risks by claiming from the airlines.

You say “EI who shouldn’t have processed her all the way to Doha in the first place”, I fear you are guessing here, EI was only contracted to provide carriage from Shannon to London. Customer had correct documentation for that journey.

As for the “collusive oligopy”, I honestly don’t think so. Competition authorities are generally on the ball with that.

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FaroFlyer

[capetonianm]

A man whose Canadian passport expired while he was abroad cannot recover any of the costs he racked up after Air Canada refused to let him board his return flight, an Ontario court has ruled.

In its decision, the small claims court found that Gerald Gartner was the author of his own misfortune because he should have ensured his document was valid before trying to fly back to Toronto from St. Lucia.

“The plaintiff was responsible for failing to check his own passport,” Deputy Judge David Dwoskin said in his ruling in Ottawa. “Air Canada determined in good faith that it was required by applicable law or government regulation … to refuse to carry the plaintiff.”

Full article here :

Air Canada agent right to deny boarding over expired passport, court rules

[SimonS1]

Yep, and EI conditions of carriage say this:

13.1 GENERAL
13.1.1
You are responsible for obtaining all required travel documents and visas and for complying with all laws, regulations, orders, demands and travel requirements of countries to be flown from, into or through which you transit.

13.1.2
We shall not be liable for the consequences to any Passenger resulting from his or her failure to obtain such documents or visas or to comply with such laws, regulations, orders, demands, requirements, rules or instructions.

[AFlyingDutchman]

I realise I am a bit late to this discussion, but one comment from the OP says it all for me. ‘I had been advised that passports need a minimum of 6 months validity from my agent, however this slipped my mind.’ So even your travel agent advised you. While you might not be happy with the response of the airline(s), it is your own fault (which you admit) so any recompence is doubful.

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cwoodward, JollyFlyer

[capetonianm]

This really is about BA’s lack of care ad is not the fault of the passenger.

If the facts are as per the article (and that of course is never a given), it is a disgrace :

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/british-airways-sophie-morgan-disabled-passengers-flight-concessions-air-travel-carers-a8954261.html

Ms Morgan, who was paralysed in a car crash when she was 18 and uses a wheelchair, was left unassisted for 45 minutes during a 12-hour flight from Buenos Aires to London Heathrow, with no means of contacting a flight attendant.

The Paralympics presenter said she called repeatedly for help on the 9 June service, to no avail.

“Two to three hours into the flight, I rang the call button as I needed a glass of water to take some medication,” she told The Independent.

“No one responded, so after half an hour I was left with little option. I started sliding headsets down the aisle to get someone’s attention – all in the hopes the cabin crew might see them from behind the curtain.

“I started to get really frustrated and upset. Eventually a flight attendant wandered out and after 45 minutes the cabin manager finally came over and asked what was wrong.

She has also called for airlines to offer concessions for disabled travellers. That I strongly disagree with, it’s the beginning of a slippery slope, but certainly disabled passengers need to be treated with greater care and respect.

[rferguson]

Something doesn’t sound right about this independent article. The lady couldn’t get the attention of an able bodied person sat next to/in front/behind her to get the attention of the crew? I’m not saying this is at all acceptable – asking other passengers to intervene on her behalf – but surely it makes more sense than sliding headsets along the aisle?

Rights for disabled people and regulations in the USA (including flights to/from by any airline) already exceed those of the rest of the world. I understand, if I was disabled I would like to feel I was being accommodated as much as an able bodied person. But some of the regulations do impact on the operation. For example, it’s always been the way that people with a physical disability advise the airline in advance so assistance can be arranged. That they board first and disembark last which makes perfect sense in the orderly boarding and disembarking of an aircraft. The US regulations state that disabled people need to give no notice. They can board and disembark as and when they wish. If the airline deems that they need someone to tend to them inflight – feeding them, assisting them to use the toilet – the airline needs to provide this second seat for free.

**Personal opinions only**

[capetonianm]

Another example of poor service from BA.

Friends of mine were on yesterday’s BA910/LHR FRA which departed 2’10” late due to a technical (engine) problem with the aircraft. The information from the flight deck was comprehensive and informative, so full marks to flight deck crew.

They had a connection to JNB for which they had allowed 3 hours. As they were arriving on gate well over 2 hours late, and had to change terminals, this now became a challenge, particularly as their luggage was not through checked. They asked if one of them could move forward prior to landing to the C class cabin which had empty seats, in order to grab hand baggage and make a fast get away so that at least one them had a chance of making the connection while the other would have to deal with missing it.

FA asked cabin services manager who said ‘no’. I can understand that under normal circumstances such a request might be seen as ‘cheeky’ and therefore refused. Under the circumstance where there was a significant delay imputable to BA, and given that there was a valid reason for the request, it seems unreasonable in the extreme that the request was refused.

A ‘snotogram’ to BA will be on its way.

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AFlyingDutchman, cwoodward

[rferguson]

[quote quote=954130]Another example of poor service from BA.

Friends of mine were on yesterday’s BA910/LHR FRA which departed 2’10” late due to a technical (engine) problem with the aircraft. The information from the flight deck was comprehensive and informative, so full marks to flight deck crew.

They had a connection to JNB for which they had allowed 3 hours. As they were arriving on gate well over 2 hours late, and had to change terminals, this now became a challenge, particularly as their luggage was not through checked. They asked if one of them could move forward prior to landing to the C class cabin which had empty seats, in order to grab hand baggage and make a fast get away so that at least one them had a chance of making the connection while the other would have to deal with missing it.

FA asked cabin services manager who said ‘no’. I can understand that under normal circumstances such a request might be seen as ‘cheeky’ and therefore refused. Under the circumstance where there was a significant delay imputable to BA, and given that there was a valid reason for the request, it seems unreasonable in the extreme that the request was refused.

A ‘snotogram’ to BA will be on its way.[/quote]

TBH Capetonian the actions of the cabin crew on that flight would seem more the exception than the rule. Unless there were a huge amount of passengers on the flight that were also running late for connections and asking for the same thing (highly likely) and there were just not enough CE seats.

I’m not that familiar with short haul but on longhaul where we are delayed and have customers on a longhaul to longhaul or longhaul to shorthaul connection and it is tight we will always try and move them further up the jet if it helps them disembark quicker. Because believe me a PA along the lines of ‘ladies and gentleman when the captain switches the seatbelt sign off can we ask that those of you that don’t have tight connections remain seated whilst those that do can have a speedy exit’. A sign of the times unfortunately. But yes, i’ve never had a CSD refuse a request to move someone from economy up to empty seats in club to facilitate their tight connection.

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SimonS1, GivingupBA, AFlyingDutchman, DerekVH, capetonianm, openfly

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