[IanFromHKG]

Once you have seen the pictures of the interior – well, I think it is amazing they got everyone out before the fire consumed them. Seats wrenched from their moorings or collapsed, and by the look of it the floor may well have buckled and twisted. I am amazed nobody was trapped

Respect to everyone involved – except the morons with hand luggage, of course

This incident reminded me of an article I read a while ago about the George Cross – and in particular of the only woman to receive the honour in peacetime, Jane Harrison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Harrison

[IanFromHKG]

And in case anyone wants to see it, here you can actually see the crash:

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/ndnvideo?id=24933071

As the voiceover commentary points out, it really does look as though they came in much too low

[Bullfrog]

There was a TV program giving advice on aspects of an emergency landing that one is NOT told about on board. One piece of advice mentioned covering your ‘best hand’ with your ‘not so effective hand’ in the brace position.

Ie A right handed person should cover their right hand with their left hand in the brace position. In the event of flying debris in the cabin, it is important to protect one’s head and right hand. This will allow for a faster removal of the seat belt.

Injured hands mean seat belts can’t be undone.

[MartynSinclair]

Does anyone know what aircraft the pilot under supervision had transitioned from?

Has there been any comment yet whether the ILS was fully functional.

Remember also, unlike in Europe, heavy jets can get a VFR landing clearance at SFO. If the aircraft was flying too low, would this have been mentioned by the controller under IFR – or would the aircraft systems have warned the pilots…. (low speed, below glideslope)….

[IanFromHKG]

No, Martyn, the ILS wasn’t operating at all

[MartynSinclair]

was any approach system working…. ?

[IanFromHKG]

That I don’t know, but apparently the visual approach lights were shut down as well…

[IanFromHKG]

Oh, and apparently the beginning of the runway was moved 90 metres to the west in order to accommodate construction works at the airport. A report in the SCMP says “All Boeing 777s, like most modern airliners, have cockpit computers that use GPS to create a glide slope for landing that is nearly as good as the ground-based ILS, said Bob Coffman, an American Airlines captain who formerly flew the 777. It would be standard procedure for pilots to create their own glide path before landing, but the computer’s database relies on where the runway usually begins, he said. Moving the threshold would invalidate the computer-generated slope, he said”

[MartynSinclair]

Not wishing to draw conclusions without knowing the full facts, but landing a heavy jet, after a longhaul flight, visually, with no landing aids, including PAPI’s on a runway that juts out into the sea (thereby reducing vertical awareness) would provide additional (and unnecessary) challenges.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_20/vsd_story.html

[StandingThemUp]

Martyn

From what I understand from various sources (so not definitive) the landing aids status were

Localizer – available
Glideslope – notamed as u/s
PAPI – available

The PAPI were taken out by the aircraft during its skid and 3/4 units were physically destroyed.

[JordanD]

Martyn – based on various sources, STU has correctly said that Localizer and PAPI were available at the time of the incident, with Glideslope noted (via NOTAM from 01JUN) as Out of Service.

In terms of what the pilot had transitioned from – I’ve read (again via various sources), he had upwards of 9000 hours on various aircraft including the 747-400.

[MartynSinclair]

Nobody is infallible but 9000 hours including a -400 type rating and presumably close monitoring on the aircraft being transitioned onto, there has to be more to this than has been reported (currently).

[canucklad]

Firstly, not an expert…so my thoughts could be balderdash……but

I know this might sound like a daft question, but which way was the sun shining on the final approach….

Like most accidents it’s the accumulation of many small factors that result in catastrophe……

It’s hard to believe that an experienced pilot would allow the aircraft to slow to that speed, without him believing something else is going to happen..

And although the picture is grainy, could it be that the aircraft is flaring just prior to the sea wall ?

[craigwatson]

Martyn I will have to disagree. A Visual approach in CAVOK for a professional pilot should be a non event, but, and I have said this before on this forum, pilots from that particular country are lost without the automation. My opinion is that it was the lack of glide slope that they couldn’t handle, but we will see as the investigation plays out.

They started the approach too high, and aggresively tried to catch it, going below it.

[MartynSinclair]

Craig, agree with your take on things but “should be” sadly was not the case… on this occasion.

I don’t think its fair to hang the pilot out to dry just yet though…

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