[KSHaggag]

I have not checked all their PE fares in all markets but I recall having identified a PE fare from DXB to HKG ( via SIN ) RT at AED4100 vs AED2500 for the lowest Economy and AED9000 for the ((discounted)) Business Class ;I see this as a good pricing strategy .

I did check the fares from FRA to HKG in PE and can tell that yes ,FlyingCanadian ,you are right ;for a little more you can upgrade your PE and fly J at a very hefty fare that breaks the bank !

[AMcWhirter]

As I mentioned earlier, SIA lacks the zeal it once had before it joined Star and became part of the establishment.

When SIA first operated to Europe and Australia in 1972, it was a non-IATA airline so there was nothing to stop it offering free drinks in economy class (unlike IATA member carriers) and better onboard catering.

SIA was a thrifty carrier. Some of its B707s it flew in the early days were certainly not brand new. On some of the flights I took, the aircraft had been acquired secondhand from Qantas. They still displayed the wattle leaf motif on the cabin walls.

Don’t forget that in 1972, IATA told its members exactly what they could and couldn’t serve. The trade body even had what was known as an “IATA sandwich” …it was a sandwich whose dimensions were specified by IATA. No member airline dare stray outside IATA rules and regulations otherwise it risked a heavy fine.

Anyway, SIA was a breath of fresh air and it expanded rapidly in the same way that the Gulfies have been, and are still, doing today.

Besides good service, free drinks etc SIA captured passengers with its discounted fares offer. Because it wasn’t an IATA member, SIA could charge what it liked much to the fury of IATA itself, rival IATA airlines and IATA travel agents.

At that time, airlines had to adhere to published IATA tariffs so SIA made its discounted tickets available through the travel trade, in this case mainly non-IATA agents known as “bucket shops.”

Indeed back in 1982, there was a battle (on which I reported for Business Traveller at the time) between SIA and Lufthansa in Germany over these discounted tariffs.

At one stage, German govt inspectors were positioned at the Frankfurt check-in counters for certain Asian carriers where passengers had to show both their ticket and the invoice from the agent which showed the price they had paid for their tickets.

But over the years, the situation changed. IATA ditched its onerous rules, liberalisation arrived and SIA became an IATA member.

[rferguson]

Absolutely fascinating!

I knew that IATA had control over things like schedules and fares but I never knew their reach even dictated what type of drinks and sandwiches could be served. WOW!

[canucklad]

If I was advising SIA I’d definitely not recommend going down the Premium Economy route…..
In marketing terms its very Red Ocean thinking!!

Taking on the ME3 directly, IMO, is similar to getting into the ring with Mike Tyson and expecting to prevail!

As regular readers know I am definitely in the anti-premium economy camp …..it’s no surprise that when AC introduced their cabin , the first thing they did was seriously degrade their “Y” offering, without reducing their prices accordingly. These cabins confuse the overall message, blackmailing “Y” passengers to upgrade, and allowing cost conscious “C” passengers to downgrade.

Put it another way, how outraged would rail passengers in the UK be, if the TOC’s introduced a Standard + carriage and downgraded standard class even further without dropping fares?

So, for me what SIA needs to do, is go back to its routes, play to its strengths which many people here have already mentioned……

And here is a question for you?

Just done a random survey at my work,….….. ref: :The Singapore Girl
Of 25 people asked, only 3 said they associated it with SIA, and further SQ isn’t associated with excellence. Emirates is !!
Could SQ also be a victim of PC correctness, especially here in the UK. After all, if you don’t beat your own drum, nobody will know who you are

[KSHaggag]

Even in the good old days ,when SIA was doing well ,it was still a bit too shy compared to others ( Singaporean Culture ..i believe ) .The excellence that surveyed people in the UK evoke is maybe related to the fact that such passengers did not really experience SQ s glory : all they see and know now is ME3 ,notably EK ( in my eyes a big expert in squeezing passengers on board even in Business Class ) ,because comparing EK to BA ,yesss BA looks rather shabby and stingy compared to EK in Economy Class with ore decent food ,better IFE ,etc…SQ Lovers do know exactly that SIA is not just selling a product but they are promoting a culture of discipline ,well being ,care ,and service that EK is not focusing on ..Moreover ,SIA is selling Singaporean culture ;what culture is being sold by the ME3 ???
Premium Eco is still a breath of fresh air for customers who need a better experience yet without forking out too much ,especially that Ecomony nowadays within 98 % of airlines is indeed bad .

[KSHaggag]

Thank you Alex for this lovely flashback ! There is nothing more beautiful than going through SIA s history and development .

[PeterCoultas]

C-lad & KSH – I’m certainly with Canuklad on premium economy – the same space as an old economy and you retain meals and drinks but at twice the price.
Similarly I’m with KSHaggag when it comes to the M3 vs SQ MH and hopefully garuda. Also, why in the world would anyone want to get up in the middle of the night and wander around an ME shopping mall when there are directs from europe to africa & asia?

[KSHaggag]

Hi PeterCoultas !

I want you on our side ,PE fans !!..haha..the point is that nowadays Economy will shrink ( in quality ) and go downhill undoubtedly whether we like it or not so the Eco products around will be rather humiliating .For someone flying once a year it is bearable but for those of us for whom flying is becoming a daily routine ,we will definitely have to be kicked forward for a more decent experience .
Either you pay a cheap charlie ticket for bo frills OR you pay through the nose to get pampered ;I like segmentation here ;pamper me for a surcharge coz I cannot bear your product in Eco on a longhaul anymore ;I definitely cannot anymore .
SQ,CX,LH,LX,AF,KL,BA,SK ,etc are big schools who taught the world about flying so I will not ( allow) them to vanish ;I will still back those of them who develop their products and adapt to today s needs .
Forget about flying decently in Eco on longhaul today ,unfortunately …you will upgrade to PE ..you will /have to /should ….
It is becoming a decisive factor to me upon choosing an airline nowadays while staying on a ( reasonable ) budget : I opt for those who give me the chance to get a more pleasurable flight or at least offer me the possibility to purchase some legroom ,a better seat ,a better meal ,etc…
In this arena I salute OS,SN,CX,AF ..very soon SQ .
I AM STILL HAPPY TO FLY SIA in Eco,by the way ..

[canucklad]

Morning KSHaggag ….
Your points above, should actually put you in the anti PE camp. Think about what the airlines and for that matter other service providers have done to us consumer’s over the years…… They have squeezed and squeezed service levels down,yet nudged and nudged prices up. And have done it not by stealth, but more by adopting a contemptuous approach to their customers…..

Worse, they use language such as “enhancements” and “more choice” , euphemistically challenging our intellect…….And sadly, they know they can do it…

Why…because they know,like Chelsea supporters,if one person takes a principled approach and says enough is enough..”I’m not renewing my season ticket”…there’s someone else whose morals can be bought for more.

[canucklad]

Morning KSHaggag ….
Your points above, should actually put you in the anti PE camp. Think about what the airlines and for that matter other service providers have done to us consumer’s over the years…… They have squeezed and squeezed service levels down,yet nudged and nudged prices up. And have done it not by stealth, but more by adopting a contemptuous approach to their customers…..

Worse, they use language such as “enhancements” and “more choice” , euphemistically challenging our intellect…….And sadly, they know they can do it…

Why…because they know,like Chelsea supporters,if one person takes a principled approach and says enough is enough..”I’m not renewing my season ticket”…there’s someone else whose morals can be bought for more.

[KSHaggag]

Morning Canucklad ,

Actually ,some airlines like CX have withdrawn their PE service from areas who had no clue about what PE could be like the Middle East and Asia .Maybe the first reason is that customers in those areas don t know what PE is ;they needed education and awareness ( still ,the airline s fault ) ,secondly the product was not priced right .
Going with your principle ,we would fight against Business Class to force the airlines to upgrade the standards in Economy ?
Let s forget that Economy is slated for any enhancements whatsoever as long as guys like Ryanair and Easyjet are distorting the airline business and putting pressure on standards worldwide .The best thing those LCCs have done ( for themselves ) is teaching the public the way to mediocrity ;good bye high standards ,goodbye service ,goodbye pleasurable air travel from now on .
Why are BA ,AF,LH ,etc coming up with funny ideas like handbag only fares ,pay for your meal ,your seat ,a breath of fresh air so to speak nowadays ? whose idea was that ?? Those guys creating an illusion called low cost air travel ;at the end of the day ,it is just marginally lower than a full service fare ,coz those guys still have Revenue Management and very often you end up paying the same if not more but without any frills .Miles and points are almost 25 years old ;still a positive development that steers our choice of carrier now ;LCCs are not offering it ..
As a matter of fact ,I am fiercely fighting against LCCs and will always welcome whoever will upgrade my travel experience .

[KSHaggag]

Hey Canucklad ,

Sorry I just wanted to add that whatever carrier that comes up with a “fake ” PE product ,i.e. disappointing from a customer s standpoint will scrap it shortly thereafter or will struggle selling it .Only those ” good ” PEs will survive .I would put BA in the forefront of carriers who came up with a WTP long ago that did offer NOTHING except extra 7 inches of legroom ;this is robbery .
Ever since they have done very little to make it really PE ..
NZ and JL have offered a decent product that is gaining popularity and satisfying both consumers and sellers .
Let s agree that gone are the days of a decent flight experience in Economy longhaul anywhere in the world ..SIA could be the only survivor in this arena ;let s see how many customers they will manage to attract to pay those xtra GBPs to upgrade to PE ..I am eager to watch this .

[canucklad]

Hi KS, your point about the LCC’s is well noted, and accurate. And again,the legacy airlines have shown very little inventive thought in protecting their market share….

Ryanair is my airline of choice between EDI and DUB, simply because they’re cheaper than Aer Lingus and Aer Lingus wrongly decided to remove the differentiation’s between themselves and FRightmare…

To answer your point,about business class, I’ll let you decide,based on my following observation……If I’m not mistaken,the concept of a separate business class cabin,evolved from KLM introducing and marketing the benefits of a “Y” FFF ticket……The Full Fare Facilities ticket allowed for aseating beside other FFF passengers,priority boarding and luggage reclamation etc, leaving those of us who paid for our apex and bucket shop tickets enjoying their “Y” service at the back of the plane…So in essence, today’s PE is a bit of an enigma,because KLM did it back in the 70’s….

As a liberal social democrat I’d propose that LCC’s ,particularly in Europe have liberated the poorer people,allowing them the freedom to fly,and consquenl annoy the rest of us travelling snobs in the process. : )
And that can only be a good thing…..

Now,where’s that lawnmower…….

[KSHaggag]

Thanks Canucklad !

I do fully respect your point of view .

Well yes KLM has been ,is ,and will hopefully remain a great innovator in the airline business .First to introduce the Select premium product in Europe and the longhaul biz class ,however till today they are opposed to introducing a dedicated PE product ..just 4 extra inches of legroom in the comfort zone among other facilities like prepaid a la carte meals ..I did try their innovation several times but felt a bit fooled to pay 45 euros for 4inches extra on a flight from Amsterdam to Dubai .I would have preferred a dedicated product in a separate cabin for which I would collect more miles in exchange for my money .
Anyways ,what I care about today is a carrier giving me the chance to upgrade my experience in the air and on the ground for a little extra money in today s world of ailing standards !
I honestly have no clear answer to how on Earth could legacy carriers combat LCC s !
By the way ,Aer Lingus is introducing soon a product called Aer Space for short haul flights in Europe ,offering some fringe benefits to the regular travelers who are seeking a more comfortable ride .
Cheers !

[gerryhac]

As a ‘pioneer’ of MSA/SIA, I joined MSA on 03.05.1971 at LHR), I am gratified by the varying comments of your correspondents.

In the early days, MSA/SIA was indeed a ‘poacher’ – setting itself up as a David against the Goliath of IATA and BOAC/QF etc. We introduced free drinks in EYCL and free inflight earphones, much to the extreme annoyance and anger of the establishment. But we prevailed.

In due time, we changed from being the’ poacher’ to ‘gamekeeper’, which is what SIA is today.

The Mideast carriers with all their wealth and backing (disputed of course!) are taking away traffic from BA/QF/MH/CX/SQ/TG etc by virtue of their extensive networks and fleets funded from a bottomless pit.

Whether or not the Far Eastern and European carriers will survive this onslaught, who knows ! Personally, now happily ‘retired’ (never been busier !), I await the ‘bursting’ of the Middle East bubble. It will surely come !

[Author]

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