[AMcWhirter]

Another way in which Norwegian Air keeps costs down is by hiring foreign (ie non-Scandinavian) cabin staff.

But this policy is not going down well with the unions in Norway who are urging that passengers boycott the airline. Apparently Norwegian Air pays its Thai flight attendants a base salary of USD500 a month which, although good by Thai standards, is a fraction of what Norway-based cabin staff would be paid.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/10/30/norwegian-air-faces-boycott/

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

I’m not sure they can make it work but they should also focus on selling Gatwick as the departure airport over Heathrow. I disagree on the point about fares for July/August waiting for a BA seat sale in economy. This rarely happens for this time of year on BA or they are very brief in termos of sale period. Yes – they do for Premium and Business when sometimes booked last minute – but not much use if planning to book for a family in advance when combining with car hire / villas / hotels and so forth.

But the main point is they should be selling the service to leisure customers on the South Coast / Kent / Surrey etc who find it much easier and preferable to go to Gatwick. I personally would pay a premium to fly from Gatwick over Heathrow as so much easier for me – and some of my clients do pay quite a % more for ease & convenience. In the same way someone in West London would only chose Gatwick over Heathrow is the savings were substantial. Norwegian only have 3 flights to sell to NYC each week so they haven’t got 1000’s of seats to sell like the legacy carriers have.

They should also try and reach out to the SME Businesses in the South East whose budget does not normally extend to Business Class and in some cases can be flexible around travel dates and work around the airline. The Premium Product on Norwegian may be a tempter for them.

For me – if I had the need to go on one of these routes then it would be a one way out Norwegian in Premium and (if I had them as a regular traveller), a miles/points reservation back in Business Class on VS/BA/UA/DL.

[FormerlyDoS]

Tim

Great post and agree with all your points.

[SergeantMajor]

I would not agree with’s Tim’s post.

I would suggest that most families actually plan their annual summer holiday well in advance, and certainly would plan to take advantage of the well-trailered fare and holiday sales which BA runs.

There are plenty of economy offers, and BA has the advantage that you can pay just a deposit at booking stage – I’m not certain Norwegian offers this facility.

At any rate, Norwegian is really competing against the charter carriers; I don’t see it impacting BA’s revenues materially. It will, however, be a useful test of the Fort Lauderdale route, and is the first step to opening up this gateway for other carriers.

The current Luxury Seat Sale encompasses next summer (up to 31 August), but you must book by 12 November.

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/offers/holidays/business-flights

I don’t think Norwegian offers a good value proposition, and doubt it will manage more than two seasons.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Thanks FDoS

Also the other point that seems to have been missed in the debate is that Norwegian do sell connecting tickets. As they expand European operations at LGW they they may be getting feed onto there longhaul flights as well. Initialially looking at it connections so far seem to be in Oslo / Copenhagen, but no reason why they won’t include Gatwick as a connecting option, especially if they re-jig some timings in future. The evening LGW departure to NYC at 17:10 could work very well for Businesses in the South East – and gives time for flights from Europe to connect.

[SergeantMajor]

The trouble with Norwegian is that it isn’t really “low cost”.

The fares are only marginally cheaper than a full service carrier, and especially on longhaul, even in economy, the perks matter, especially to business travellers.

Add to that the lack of miles-earning potential, and it doesn’t really stack up on routes where there is a choice of carriers. I can see some interest in Fort Lauderdale, but all it will take will be for BA to swoop in, capitalise on norwegian building up the route at a loss, and norwegian would be toast.

Are they using the North or South Terminal at Gatwick.

[FormerlyDoS]

Yes Tim, you’re right and Norwegian also offer free wifi and streaming movies (at a charge) on many aircraft, even on short haul routes, which is innovative compared to some airlines.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

SM

I don’t think you read my post properly. BA rarely have sale fares in economy for the summer holiday period in economy class, and waiting last minute for the Premium/Business Class potential sale is not viable for families at all. Also the sale fare as it stands is not as low as it normally goes in June/Early July for travel in Jul/August for Business Class.

With regards to families buying seat only deals – they’d have to pay in full so no difference there. If booking a “package” fare then yes they can pay a deposit.

And on the subject of families – if I was travelling from the South Coast (which I would) there is a huge market for people who would do everything possible to avoid taking there family to Heathrow and would jump at a chance to go from LGW. I certainly would if I wanted to go to NYC for example.

I’m not saying I expect Norwegian to make it and survive – and I think BA will launch FLL themselves now that Norwegian have beaten them to it and announced the route. On the other hand I wouldn’t be so quick to write them off.

I never suggested that this will impact BA at all (and you write in a style that suggests I’m attacking BA when I’m not?) and I don’t think it will. I think with the right marketing and delivery it can tap and open up a new niche market for themselves.

[SergeantMajor]

I think you’re right this will have minimal impact on BA. In the medium term, I expect it to open up routes which BA might otherwise have to invest in to open up – so it’s probably net positive for BA at Gatwick, and especially so while BA is still constrained in terms of available aircframes.

Norwegian currently offering between £299-£399 outbound and £181-£279 inbound to FLL in July.

Nice deals, but they cannot be making money on those fares.

http://www.norwegian.com/uk/flight/lowfare/?D_City=LGW&A_City=FLL&TripType=2&D_Day=01&R_Day=01&D_Month=201407&R_Month=201407&IncludeTransit=false&CurrencyCode=GBP&D_SelectedDay=04&dFare=269&MustContainPrice=269&tracker=TTContinue

[SergeantMajor]

PS there’s a holiday sale on right now, until 14 Nov for holidays next summer.

Currently you can save £100 per booking before 7 Nov, and only pay a £150 deposit, for instance 7 nights summer school holidays for around £700 pp, which probably beats the norwegian flight only offer by a country mile:

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/destinations/orlando/orlando-deals?source=H01X&hpsource=H01BXOrlandoEnjoythe

Double Avios, as well, it seems.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Hi SM

To answer your question they are using South (which is ashame), but then all there other flights use the South and if they did offer connections then too much hassle to transfer them to the North (better terminal IMHO).

[AMcWhirter]

As SM notes in a previous post …. Norwegian Air isn’t really low-cost as was Laker Skytrain and People Express.

I remember Laker started in 1977 with LGW-JFK fares of £59 one-way in the peak summer months. I also remember booking a ticket with People Express for LGW-EWR in early September 1983 and the return price was around £125.

Granted taxes/fees/charges were almost non-existent in those days but those prices were substantially less than what the majors were charging.

In fact Norwegian’s planned ex-LGW operation (in terms of price + frequency) reminds me of the transatlantic charters in the ’60s and ’70s. They were cheaper than the major scheduled carriers but not by much in the peak summer months.

One concern I would have is that all three US routes from LGW are being undertaken by a single B787. And will the short 90 mins turnaround at the US end be adequate for reliability ?

Also let us hope that the Irish authorities grant Norwegian the relevant operating permit in time:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/lowcost-norwegian-to-launch-longhaul-flight-service-based-in-ireland-29670162.html

[SergeantMajor]

I did People Express in the 80s.

Seem to remember a dreadful, prehistoric terminal in Washington DC. Paid for the fare in cash after boarding, as if on a bus.

[FormerlyDoS]

Having actually flown Norwegian for a reasonable number of flights over a few years, I have yet to encounter anyone who was not a lady or gentleman.

Some of the worst behaviour I have witnessed has been on BA, in particular in Club World, where DKYWIA Hooray Henry types have given the cabin crew a really hard time after consuming far too much free alcohol.

The only time I have been physically threatened in an airport was by a BA customer who got the wrong end of the stick from a shouted message from a BA check in agent and thought I was BA staff and decided to vent his frustration on me. The Polizei intervened and took him away.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Hi Alex

The amount of time they have a LGW each day (3-6 hours) would suggest even if they are an hour behind in the States there is enough time at the UK end to recover. However I guess the plane must get back to OSL at some point so I guess there may be a weekly / bi weekly switch service on the 787 at some point? Not on the timetable now but would think this might be confirmed nearer the time? Or will it be 1 aircraft fully looked after by Norwegian or contractors at LGW?.

[Author]

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