Airports opening, airlines flying – the re-emerging of aviation.

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Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 166 total)

  • MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Yes, some of the airlines seem to be engaging in shady practices like the attempts to issue vouchers instead of cash refunds.

    On the other hand I suppose travel has always had an element of buyer beware about it. For example I could book a ticket to Nigeria but then be refused entry due to lack of correct documents or permissions to clear the border.

    Airlines marketing/selling tickets to UK nationals in full knowledge there are strict border controls meaning the passengers can’t even board the aircraft for the flight purchased, is a little more than ‘shady’, in the professional world I work in…(plus the tickets are sold as non refundable).

    Interesting comparison…. of having the wrong paperwork for entry into a third world country…


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Airlines marketing/selling tickets to UK nationals in full knowledge there are strict border controls meaning the passengers can’t even board the aircraft for the flight purchased, is a little more than ‘shady’

    In normal times they could sell me a ticket to Nigeria in full knowledge there are strict border controls too. Having the correct documentation/permissions is always down to the traveller, although I agree that where the border is totally shut their morals are questionable.


    AlanOrton1
    Participant

    There should be, at the very least, a clear and in large font disclaimer on the airline website booking page stating ‘entry to the US / country X is currently prohibited for citizens of the following countries etc’.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    There should be, at the very least, a clear and in large font disclaimer on the airline website booking page stating ‘entry to the US / country X is currently prohibited for citizens of the following countries etc’.

    With many countries and guidelines changing daily it would create a lot if challenges. But no reason why there couldn’t be a warning that travellers should check local entry requirements and restrictions prior to purchase.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Buried in the Ts and Cs of all airline and OLTA websites is a clause to the effect that the passenger is soley responsible for having the correct and valid travel documents and that the airline/agency take no responsibility where a passenger is refused boarding, transit, or admission due to incorrect/incomplete documentation. The problem is that everyone ticks the box but few read the Ts and Cs.

    Some helpfully include links to where the information may be found, if not this is the public version of Timatic, which most airlines use for checking.
    https://klm.traveldoc.aero/
    This seems to be updated (it should be!) and gives a clear warning :

    You may have a problem, please check below
    London Heathrow Airport (LHR) – Cape Town International Airport (CPT) 26 Oct 2020
    Passengers are not permitted to enter South Africa due to the outbreak of novel coronavirus.
    Additional travel rules

    It is probably time for the booking sites to have a very prominent message visible throughout the booking process to remind passengers to check these details and again before ending the booking, to confirm that they have done so. It would avoid the unpleasant situations I have been in when working at airports where we have had to refuse boarding or return pax to origin.

    In the old days of real travel agencies, the agent would often check the documentation, but that still left the ultimate responsibility with the passenger.


    DavidGrodentz
    Participant

    Martyn, I know from your posts you use HK on your way to Bangkok. Despite what Virgin say, HK is closed to non residents indefinitely, and residents need to quarantine on return for two weeks until at least 18 Sep.

    Transits have resumed but I believe it has to be on the same airline

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    With many countries and guidelines changing daily it would create a lot if challenges. But no reason why there couldn’t be a warning that travellers should check local entry requirements and restrictions prior to purchase.

    IMHO I believe it borders on dishonestly to sell tickets to destinations where the passengers can not travel to. It is not a case of whether a passenger has the correct travel documents or not, it is a case of a destination country closing it’s door to non residents (as in the case of USA) or placing the passengers in strict 14 day quarantine on arrival.

    Virgin announced recently that from mid July flights were resuming from London to a range of long haul destinations and ticket sales were open. Every single destination, UK residents were either banned to enter or had STRICT 14 day quarantine. I accept this may change at short notice, but then of course passengers face the hurdles of refunds.

    Buried in the Ts and Cs of all airline and OLTA websites is a clause to the effect that the passenger is soley responsible for having the correct and valid travel documents and that the airline/agency take no responsibility where a passenger is refused boarding, transit, or admission due to incorrect/incomplete documentation.

    Is a closed or restricted border the same as not having the correct travel documents?

    I don’t think it is asking too much of the airlines to warn passengers about an individual routes travel restrictions. After all, airlines will be very quick to refuse travel at the point of check in – after the ticket had been purchased.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Martyn, I know from your posts you use HK on your way to Bangkok. Despite what Virgin say, HK is closed to non residents indefinitely, and residents need to quarantine on return for two weeks until at least 18 Sep.

    Transits have resumed but I believe it has to be on the same airline

    Thank you David – Once I know I am able to travel, I think I will be considering new options for London – HKG – BKK and back). I can not see this happening much before November / December at the earliest.

    Thankfully, I no longer have any reason / need to go west bound to USA.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    capetonianm
    Participant

    Is a closed or restricted border the same as not having the correct travel documents?

    No it’s not, but the IATA check will show any restrictions in that regard.

    I don’t think it is asking too much of the airlines to warn passengers about an individual routes travel restrictions.

    In theory, but there are so many variations on the theme depending on the passenger’s nationality, residency, previous travel history, that they could only put in a general warning stating that borders may be closed or restricted and they need to check.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    In theory, but there are so many variations on the theme depending on the passenger’s nationality, residency, previous travel history, that they could only put in a general warning stating that borders may be closed or restricted and they need to check.

    I am sure a general warning at point of payment would suffice. However, airlines seem to be in the knowledge at check in when faced with fines for allowing a passenger who shouldn’t be travelling to travel.

    Where the USA is concerned, it is very straight forward for UK citizens. Unless your name is Nigel Farage, 99% of UK citizens are barred from entry into the USA – that’s pretty simple.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    In the past, and this may not apply right now since so few people are travelling, much of the checkin is done by machine and with the many different scenarios in place, could a machine cope, or would it be a simple case of ‘box 1 not ticked, computer says no.’?

    On the other hand, could a human cope? On one of our first trips together, in 1992 my then g/f (now wife) and I checked in for a Condor flight to CPT from Germany and the checkin agent said my wife couldn’t travel as she didn’t have a visa for ZA. I said she didn’t need one, as an EU citizen (Spanish). Spain joined the EU in 1986 and possibly the passport had been issued before that date and didn’t say ‘European Union’. The lady kept saying “Spain is not in the EU and she needs a visa”. It took a while to get that sorted out.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    IMHO I believe it borders on dishonestly to sell tickets to destinations where the passengers can not travel to. It is not a case of whether a passenger has the correct travel documents or not, it is a case of a destination country closing it’s door to non residents (as in the case of USA) or placing the passengers in strict 14 day quarantine on arrival.

    It isn’t good, but I don’t think it is dishonest.

    For example at various stages in the last 2 weeks Dubai has been open to citizens only, then to citizens and residents, then to citizens/residents/tourists with quarantine and then not.

    I don’t think it is reasonable to expect airlines to know all this, however I do think it’s reasonable to have a link to the Timatic link above with a caution note.


    GivingupBA
    Participant

    Martyn said, “However, airlines seem to be in the knowledge at check in when faced with fines for allowing a passenger who shouldn’t be travelling to travel.”

    Yes, but at that point they have your passport in their hand and can and do check it for a visa etc., and residency/ nationality status – they don’t have your passport to hand when you buy a ticket, or when you check in for a flight on-line.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    It isn’t good, but I don’t think it is dishonest.

    A firm sells goods / services to clients and customers the firm knows it cant currently provide, will then offer a voucher as a refund in lieu of goods / service it cant provide and then suggests the customer is (or may be) at fault for not checking whether the goods / services being sold for a specific date can be used on that date – at worst its dishonest at best it’s very unprofessional – perhaps we just have different professional expectations and standards, SimonS1

    If I were to act in such a manner in the profession I work, I would have my professional body onto me and quite rightly so…


    SimonS1
    Participant

    It isn’t good, but I don’t think it is dishonest.

    A firm sells goods / services to clients and customers the firm knows it cant currently provide, will then offer a voucher as a refund in lieu of goods / service it cant provide and then suggests the customer is (or may be) at fault for not checking whether the goods / services being sold for a specific date can be used on that date – at worst its dishonest at best it’s very unprofessional – perhaps we just have different professional expectations and standards, SimonS1

    If I were to act in such a manner in the profession I work, I would have my professional body onto me and quite rightly so…

    But it can provide the services….as I understand it there is nothing to stop Virgin running a flight.

    If a car dealer sold me a car and I didn’t have a license to drive it, is that their problem or mine?

    In the 30+ years I have been travelling on business I have always understood that it is my issue to have correct documents and permits to travel and not the airline’s job to check every permutation. Sometimes we have to take responsibility for ourselves and stop blaming others all the time.

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 166 total)
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