[AnthonyDunn]

Err, as in what used, otherwise, to be known as “Fifth Freedom” rights or cabotage?

[dutchyankee]

Absolutely, but the argument being that Air NZ does well in attracting both American and British local trade on their superior product flying only the LHR-LAX and Vice a Versa segments. Fifth freedom rights is only the right to do so, the argument, from what I understand, is that NZ has kept the LAX route over the HKG route as they had stronger O/D traffic on that route, where on the HKG route they faced much steeper competition both in product and price.

[NTarrant]

I think the problem that NZ had between LHR and HKG, notwithstanding the comments made above, was that not many people thought of NZ for that sector, favouring BA, CX or VS. Another example being the for QF journey to MEL via HKG.

Traditionally NZ always went via LAX, or rather the LHR-LAX part was crewed by BA on NZ 747 with NZ crew LAX-AKL, in those days it was the TE555 out and TE556 back (TE from the days when NZ was Tasman Empire Airways) just thought I’d throw that one in.

[dutchyankee]

@NTarrant, absolutely right, the interline agreement started in 1974 with Air New Zealand DC-10’s flying the route up to LAX, and then with BA crew between London and LAX. NZ has been serving LAX with their own aircraft since 1965 (DC-8). 747 equipment started on the route in 1982, NZ actually also served the route via DFW to London, back via LAX, but this was halted after a short while. LAX to FRA was also operated for quite some time. NZ moved from LGW to LHR at the end of 1994. So there is quite some history for NZ in LAX.

[MarcusUK]

It is a great pity Air NZ have really pulled back regionally as well as internationally.

Emirates running flights from Dubai, to all the major Australian Cities, then down to Auckland, has severely cut their business.The old NZ’s 767’s and the odd 777 running to Sydney for eg, is well in the past, with A320’s used now. They only have 2 destinations in Asia, so they are all but cut off for using their own brands.

They are a superb Airline, great crew, excellent on board dining, and all the same qualities in their lounges. But the Effects of Emirates, and the new agreement for Etihad and Air France / KLM, linking in with Virgin Australia, means even less business for them from International passengers. These Alliances in whatever form with a Middle East Airline are appearing to be a key to feed in customer base.

Fares and the aircraft from Sydney to Auckland just do not match the style of flying on an A380 or Long range Aircraft that Emirates provides. Air New Zealand business fares are double that of Emirates on that route.
Qantas has lost in the same way, and Virgin Australia has taken much business domestically, as well as key International routes.

There is not much new capacity down within, or to Oceania, and the fight for what does exist, means some Airlines are losing business to others. Certainly there are less EU travellers going to Oceania, with the currency weaknesses here, and the strengths of the AUS $ for eg. it means cost have doubled in the last 4 years to travel / stay that direction.

The A380’s are popular and being introduced by Thai, Malaysian, as well as Singapore Airlines, from Asia to Oceania. Inevitably, older aircraft do not attract the informed passenger. Every aspect of running flights between these two areas, are very costly when a single flight a day runs, compared to 3-4 daily. You can see this with the successful Airlines Sydney routes,

A realism of the times, but a gain in one Airline’s business these days, in most global regions, means a loss for others.

[Cedric_Statherby]

All is revealed. Air NZ have spent all their money on their latest safety briefing film. See http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-briefingspoof-airline-safety-video-gets-28m-hits-in-24-hours-8277670.html

I have to say the briefing is brilliant and worth the money. Many airlines fly the LHR-HKG route and Air NZ won’t be that much missed. But no other airline can produce a video like this.

[Henkel.Trocken]

It’s true that NZ have lost out significantly particularly to EK and the A380 operation.

That said, for a nation of 3m people, NZ has always punched way above its weight. A rethink is obviously called for and I have no doubt they will come back fighting once the thinking is over.

[AMcWhirter]

Henkel

I don’t believe NZ has lost that much traffic to EK out of the UK. The routing via HKG is a recent addition for NZ.

NZ has offered more or less the same capacity via LAX ever since the rise of the Gulf carriers.

Where NZ has lost traffic must be out of mainland Europe. At one stage NZ used to serve FRA. That route was axed. It’s easier and probably quicker and cheaper for travellers on the continent to fly ex-AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC etc via the Gulf then take NZ via LHR.

By not flying via HKG, NZ can no longer boast of being perhaps the only carrier to fly right around the world.

Also the LHR-HKG route, which along with London-New York must rank as one of the prime business routes, will soon be dominated by Oneworld again. Star will have no representation after March 2013.

[sparkyflier]

I still maintain that QF leaving LHR SIN, using A380s, leaving only SQ and BA on the route, that NZ could have found a sufficient niche with their 772s.

Their products are competitive, although J on SQ is something else, with excellent F&B and very professional staff.

[Henkel.Trocken]

It’s at least five years ago that NZ pulled AKL to SIN as they chose not to compete against SQ even from their base. I can’t therefore see them choosing to compete on AKL-LHR against SQ and although their C offering is excellent and in many ways is superior to BA F I just doubt they would get business without heavy discounting on the LHR-SIN sector and of course SQ would probably take exception to that.

[canucklad]

I know this idea might sound rather odd…..but if I was a NZ exec I would consider AKL to LHR via Bali and BKK.

My reasoning, don’t go after premium business travel, go after the tourist market, and I’m sure that if there is enough wealthy people who would travel premium if their going all inclusive etc…

Should have added the New Zealand back packers heading to Europe with a stopover

[flyingcanadian]

In reply to this, AC are down to 2 flts a day from YYZ-LHR at the weekend!! I fly this route, and from 5 a day in summer, it is 2 a day at the weekend, and 2 767s rather than 777 and A330-300.

[LeTigre]

“Star will have no representation after March 2013.”

Hmmmm…really?

[sparkyflier]

Is that a very subtle hint Le Tigre. . .?

[JohnHarper]

Well, I think we know that VS are going to go one of two ways – so there may or may not be representation on LHR-HKG depending on which way the cookie crumbles!

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