[Wildgoose]

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[Senator]

A few years back I was booked on a flight from DCA (Reagan Washington National) to Charlotte on US Airways in First. I “hate” window seats as I like to get up while flying even during shorter flights. I had pre-booked an aisle seat, and to my dismay it was “gone” when I checked in. The agent at check-in said: “Sorry Sir, window is all we have”. I wanted to know why my seat was not available, and the male agent was shut as a clam.

After security screening I went to the US Airways Club, and I asked the desk agent why my seat was taken. Her answer was simple: “due to government business Sir.” So I asked her: “There is an Air Marshall in my seat?” She would not confirm nor deny it.

So all of my flights I kept looking to see where he kept his primary weapon 🙂 Couldn’t spot it….

In either case, I would feel more secure with an armed Marshall onboard than without.

To put all of this in perspective, I was on a LX flight from ARN to ZRH in September. There were a total of 8 passengers in business including the Queen of Sweden + two Security Officers. The lead Officer handed over his back-pack to the Captain upon boarding, and it was locked away in the cabin until we stepped off in ZRH. So carrying arms is not only for the US…

[judynagy]

The only action that will help is to have TRAINED observers at the airports who can pick out people for questioning and searches. Our current system is laughable, as proven by the recent crotch bomber.

The United States is so preoccupied with personal rights that this will never happen. Even if we could overcome the screaming about personal rights violations, we don’t have funds to train or pay good people because we are too busy sending money to countries that don’t even like us or spending billions on trips to outer space.

[Binman62]

Senator……(So carrying arms is not only for the US…) No, this is not the point. The point is that they are currently random but clearly ineffective given that the Christmas day incident was again on an American carrier. Please tell me how shooting in a pressurised aircraft would have stopped this guy?. The passengers, I would suggest, are alive only because there was no gun on board for anyone to use!.
The threat is very real, but it is no longer easily identifiable and is becoming ever more sophisticated and devious. The solutions must also be equally sophisticated and frankly, old fashioned gun slinging is simply not going to cut it.

Yes guns are permitted on aircraft in very specific instances in the UK involving very senior government members and the head of state.
It is restricted as guns on planes are exceptionally dangerous and those who carry them today, are highly trained and in the vast majority of cases, have never fired them in anger.

[Senator]

Binman,

I would agree that it is a sad day when we have to include security personnel with firearms onboard. As we say in Scandinavia, it is the choice between the plague or cholera… Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

However, I will not make my choice of carriers on the basis of Air Marshall or no Air Marshall. I will buy on price, schedule, service and FF miles/points. I rarely pick US carriers anyway for long haul flights, and I tend to use only Continental for domestic travel I certainly will not use US Airways again after my last BOS-SJU flight in First. Utter rubbish and not worth the money; next time I will use Continental even it requires a connection at EWR. Don’t know if we had any Air Marshalls onboard 🙂 I will look next week when I am on Continental to EWR.

[judynagy]

For what it’s worth, Continental is always my domestic airline and my favorite seat is 1B. For at least five years I am unable to chose it online, it’s always reserved for an air marshal and I’m forced to 1E. I used to peer across at the people in that seat, but of course I don’t know what an air marshal looks like!

[Wildgoose]

I don’t think we have a choice anymore if we fly to the US. Anyway, does anyone know of the last time when an Air Marshall was actually required to take action on board?
If we had lost friends and family on 11/9 you can be damn sure we would all have wished, in hindsight, that there were Air Marshalls on those three aircraft.
It’s very easy for the Liberal ‘meejia’ and the Leftie ‘Chatterati’ to rise up in arms (oh, the irony!) when any mention of Air Marshalls and extra security is made but I’m sure anyone who has experienced an ordeal, such as a hijack, would wish that there were more Air Marshalls.
Hell, I say throw in a couple of SEALs,too, on each flight !

[AsiaPacific]

I think you may be missing the point… the best way to prevent an issue on board is to stop it before you actually get on board… ie. proper , effective security searches, effective profiling and trained observers from checkin to the air bridge… a shooting match on board is not the only answer.. and certainly not a preferred one..

[oldchinahand]

It’s a horrifying scenario that Wildgoose outlines!

Why having any choice would anyone contemplate traveling from Asia (or anywhere) with any American carrier given the mostly old planes-poor seat configurations- outdated entertainment options-geriatric CC- inedible food and zero service plus now some half trained armed cowboy Sky Marshal, a Redneck driver with a pistol in his pants plus the possibility of some trigger happy American doughboys. The thought alone is almost beyond comprehension.

To be serious its generally accepted that the inept American airline, airport and ‘inland’ security is largely window dressing to calm a public inclined to massive over reaction to any form of perceived personal danger and to believe that a ‘sky marshal’ aboard could have prevented 9/11 suggests that Wildgoose spends rather too long watching HBO

[Wildgoose]

Actually, I WISH I had HBO!

Oh, and by the way, Oldchinahand, I’m pretty sure your criticism of the various American agencies has probably earned you a thoroughly decent frisking the next time you land in the US (try not to get too aroused). I’m fairly certain that any anti-American “chatter” on the Web is monitored by the various US Intelligence agencies.

[Binman62]

Wildgoose……..Will that also apply to their President who has very publically criticised his own intelligence agencies publically on TV….. I think not. In any event, if comments on this forum did lead to such action,it would be yet further evidence that the intelligence agencies have no idea what they are doing or who they are looking for.
Guns would not have helped on 9/11 anymore than hey would have on the London underground on 11/7.

The most effective way to secure passengers on a plane is to keep guns, knives and bombs off them.

[Hess963]

I agree–keep off such potential hazards on the air like guns etc. for everyone on board. It would be better, if the US security agencies improve their profiling and security checks on the ground before the flight–instead of a possible shot out or combats in the plane. The prosecuted person last Dec.09 should not been in that aircraft–US securities have failed and performed poorly–again. This should not happen again.

[Wildgoose]

Come on, you should know by now that the POTUS,especially this one, is above reproach…and eves-dropping. It is us mere mortals who will be scrutinized. :o)

On a more serious note, yes, there has been a failure on the part of US Intelligence, which is precisely why Air Marshalls need to be onboard, as a contingency, sort of as a last line of defence.

It is now almost inevitable that Arabs, Africans,and Asians, regardless of where they come from (I would imagine that those arriving from the UK would be particularly thoroughly searched and questioned, seeing that the UK is now a recruiting ground for terrorists) will be put under the microscope. Expect massive delays at Immigration at airports such as JFK/EWR, MIA, LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD, IAH, ATL, and DFW.

[Hess963]

Wildgoose or Airpocket of a kind !!

Please don’t exaggerate! The subject is serious enough to mock around. Don’t just give the readers the impression that all other races are prior to controll and observations while whites or Europeans/Americans are not.
EVERYBODY is a potential danger and please stop playing the racist cards from time to time.

[AsiaPacific]

I feel that what maybe many of us are concerned about is that if the apparent constant failures of the US intelligence service to even ‘join the dots’ on information they do have.. is any indication of the possible professional abilities of the air marshalls….. we really don’t want to be on a plane with them when they may be needed…
Please just give us better on ground searches, profiling and systems that actually have an end point in mind… not just procedures for the sake of them… and some consistency would be nice too !!!

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