12th February 2014 at 14:01 #527440
Anonymous12th February 2014 at 14:01 #527441
Air France currently operates 3 x weekly 777-200 to Lima, Peru from Paris, but by the end of June this will have increased to 4 x 777-300ER, a doubling of seat and I guess cargo capacity.
Air France partner KLM already provide daily flights on a mix of 772 + high density 777-300.
Considering there are no colonial links between Netherlands, France and Peru, and therefore not huge visiting friends and family traffic, this suggests that there must be serious tourist and major trade traffic developing between Europe and Peru.
With a 2012 economic growth rate of 6.3% in Peru, this also suggests the traffic is not one-way!13th February 2014 at 09:20 #527442
Good morning sparkyflyer
Good to see this route doing so well. It’s worth remembering that it’s peak tourist season in Peru during our summer months, so I wonder if this increased capacity will be maintained over the winter.
I also had a look at fares ex Madrid 2 July to 9 July:
Iberia direct: €1.402,80
Air France via CDG: €1.155,69
…great for the numerous Peruvians living in Spain.13th February 2014 at 11:08 #527443
You’ve made a very interesting connection here. Whilst AF are doubling capacity on the route. Iberia’s traffic and passengers to South America are down again by around 7%
I’m wondering how AF can make a go of the routes but Iberia are struggling to even maintain their traditional ‘star market’13th February 2014 at 11:13 #527444
KLM also just recently reopened the route to Santiago de Chile and announced that they are also looking at Bogota. They also announced that they will increase the frequency to SCL in the coming years from 3 times a week to daily.
What do AF-KLM know that we don’t about what is going on in South America?13th February 2014 at 11:25 #527445
I reckon they know they are getting trade, cargo & tourism.
No visiting friends and family to rely on like IB. Much of South America is booming but BA seems totally unaware. And IB brusque service over the years has alienated much of their main market. Air Europa is also seriously expanding in South America.13th February 2014 at 13:05 #527446
Yes I think IB are suffering from the poor reputation they have earned in the past. They have dreadful name in South America. They are getting better though as you can see in my recent flight review. I hope that Y has improved as well.
Air Europa are pretty similar from what I have read. I am amazed that EY are going to code share with them on their new AUH route.13th February 2014 at 14:05 #527447
When Mrs JH and I last travelled to South America AF/KLM were without question our preferred choice of airline. The service was excellent and about to get better with new premium products in all cabins.
Not sure why and serious traveler would consider an also ran on those routes when AF/KLM offer such good products.13th February 2014 at 15:26 #527448
Flying IB guarantees a flat bed, flying AF/KLM does not.13th February 2014 at 16:21 #527449
A lot of movement on the Europe-South America routes. TAP Portugal is starting to fly to Bogotá (and Panamá City) from this Summer 3 x week. Panama has been growing around 9% and Colombia 4%. Avianca has just announced a 4 x week Bogota-LHR flight. I understand that both Air France and Lufthansa are also considering upping frequencies to some routes as they are doing very well with a high load. There also also some negative notes: flights to Caracas will decrease because of government restrictions on payment in hard currency to airlines of tickets bought locally in Bolívares. And Iberia have actually cut some frequencies, Madrid-Bogota used to be be twice daily but is now once a day.13th February 2014 at 16:24 #527450
Both IB Business Class seats (old and new) look good, but AF/KL will soon be catching up with outstanding products.
However IB has earned itself for treating customers with contempt, and I know some people to detour hundreds or even thousands of miles to avoid IB.
They are turning around but it will take a while before their reputation improves.
But the capacity that AF and KL are offering to places with no historic connections is noteworthy, capturing business, cargo, government and premium tourist traffic.
BA and UK PLC is in my opinion missing out.13th February 2014 at 16:33 #527451
I personally think Iberia has improved enormously since the tie up with BA. The food is still just ok (sad because of Spain’s superb culinary tradition, and all because they are reluctant to go beyond the traditional. Come on: there is a limit to the amount of dry ham one wants to eat) but the new seats and service is much better than before and I think better than Air France.13th February 2014 at 16:40 #527452
Absolutely. BA is counting on Iberia for its Latin American operations and Iberia is still not there in many ways. After all, Iberia was chosen as a strategic partner to cover this region. BA is focusing grown on its traditional gold mine, the USA, and on China and perhaps SE Asia where there is perhaps a more durable prospect of profits. A great advantage of Iberia is Madrid as a hub and a great transit point, which I think is far superior that CDG or FRA. Best is to travel to Madrid on BA to connect to and Iberia flight to Latin America as there wont be a need to change terminal. If IB to IB one will have to go from T4 to T4S.13th February 2014 at 21:14 #527453
If you check KLM corporate, you will see the expansion plans for South America, complimented by AF, they are quite extensive with many frequency increases and new routes…
Panama services have also increased to daily with both Airlines.
“In recent years, South America and Chile in specific have been demonstrating positive economic development. Santiago fits perfectly into KLM’s strategy in which we focus on emerging markets in South America. So we’re especially pleased to have Chile back into our network after fourteen years absence. What’s more, flight options between Europe and Chile are quite limited. KLM’s new flights will serve as a welcome addition for our passengers.”
Pieter Elbers, KLM’s chief operating officer and deputy CEO.
KLM will have a flat bed product, on all 747’s within a month, and the 777 fleets by the end of summer. it looks and is stated by some on the BT forum who travelled already in the cabin, more space than BA’s First.14th February 2014 at 12:08 #527454
Is there some kind of alliance arrangement that stops European One World member airlines operating routes competing (or complimenting) LAN/TAM’s operations?
I’m trying to work out why AF/KLM are steaming in there whilst others would appear to be holding back. We’ve touched on the comparison of premium product, fact of the matter is the majority of the seats are going to be 10 abreast in the back of a 777. Is it it the lack of premium passengers that make IAG concentrate on other routes?
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