[Anonymous]

[jamesay]

Let me tell you from experience, Air France Business Class is NOT WONDERFUL ! AF are breaking the law by selling their Business Class as “Lie Flat” – this is simply not true – their B777 Biz class seats DO NOT make lie flat beds – the foot end ducks down to squeeze under the seat in front so if you are over 1metre tall/long, the “bed” slides to the floor from the knees down, making you feel sick when trying to sleep! Even the upper portion of the “bed” doesn’t become fully horizontal, so in effect the whole seat reclines within its shell and does NOT lie flat or become totally horizontal. I never got a wink on the JFK to CDG flight as I constantly felt I was sliding down a chute ! What a rip off, selling “lie flat” and charging for it! Two Cabin crew agreed with me when I complained !
AF was too cheap to make room for REAL lie flat beds like BA ! DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY !!!!!!!!!!

[AsiaFrequentFlyer]

James….come on! Its angle flat. We all know that.

BA, Virgin, some SQ have “horizontal” as you put it beds. Other airlines including AF claim to be lie flat and thats what they are. I’m surprised you are kicking up a storm on this. AF, other than QF in my opinion, has one of the best angle flat in business (and the best First out of CDG in my opinion…but one for another forum)

Do some research before dropping $5-10KUSD on a business class ticket and find out what your buying. If you want “horizontal” then find an airline that does what it says on the wraper and then I’m sure you will probably come back to the forum and complain that the champagne ws served in a plastic cup before take-off…most US airlines from CDG!

[VintageKrug]

“lie flat” is a standard industry term for an angled “wedgie” bed. The surface is still flat, hence the terminology used. Some people sleep just fine in these seats; having sampled this seat on a recent AF trip, I totally sympathise with your discomfort; it’s dreadful.

“fully flat” or “horizontal” is what you should be looking for in future.

Next time, try http://www.flyopenskies.com from Newark into Orly; their BizBed seats are fully flat.

[Senator]

I recently had an excellent sleep on the Air Canada A330-300 from YUL to LHR. Whilst I was alone so I did not mind the herring-bone layout, I must admit it was the best sleep I’ve had onboard an aircraft.

I agree with the comments related to the AF lie-flat set. It is no better or no worse than comparative products out there; LH, SK, KLM.

I did also test the new CO product on a day flight which I enjoyed.

[AsiaFrequentFlyer]

I’m sorry VK. Was my post unacceptable? Are you now controlling the forum by removing posts or do you have someone in HQ to do that for you?

Its a forum for Christ’s sake. Its meant to generate a bit of banter, anger, laughter, thought and slander.

Can’t believe my dig was there for about 2.5 mins then removed!

[AsiaFrequentFlyer]

Good original thread.

Trying to keep it from being burried.

So did the Canadians bore you to sleep Senator?

[LuganoPirate]

Apparently mid feb Swiss C class seat on the A340 will be “fully flat” and 2m long. Looking at the pictures it really is flat.

[MartynSinclair]

Try Finnair’s new seats on their A330 (in biz class). Fully flat and very comfortable.

[BABenji]

jamesa0330,

Suggest you use the link below for your future travels:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/Air_France_Boeing_777-300.php

Thanks to this website, I avoided making your mistake with a flight I was considering with Emirates.

[skywards]

If im thinking about flying on a airline im not so sure about as regards to fully flat, angled or even worse a cradle seat.. i always study Youtube, seatguru, airliners.net or here BT.

[BlackTower]

Just to get a bit controversial the new BA club world seat is not 180 degree flat. There has been little discussion of this. Take a spirit level to one when you are on the ground or just look at it closely. i still sleep soundly but would like a self install sheet for underneath please. Preferably with a picture of Caterina Murano on it (Watch Zen on bbc). I guess the goils may like Rufus?

[VintageKrug]

You can keep saying http://www.newclubworld.com is not 180 degrees flat, but that doesn’t make it so.

My experience of approaching 100 sectors flying in this seat begs to differ, as do all the reviews of the seat, and even this photo:

http://assets.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/lifestyle/2007/04/seat2b-bizlcass-large.jpg

Flatter than a BASSA leader’s learning curve.

[BlackTower]

photo clearly shows footrest end is lower than cushiony area at top, even if it were properly supported which this one isn’t. Not saying its not comfortable.

original was flat this ain’t……

[MartynSinclair]

BlackTower – when it was first suggested that the NCW seat wasnt 180 flat, I did make a closer inspection than usual although I hasten to add that I was not armed with a spirit level.

Depending on where you put the spirit level, you will probably be right!

For example, the pillow area is slightly raised, where the back support meets the seat cushion, you will find a slight dip and it is highly likely that the foot stool and the chair cushion part may be 1 or 2 deg out. Saying all of that, the only true flat bed, level 180 deg bed/sleeping area is the Virgin style flip over seat, becasue then you are literally as flat as a board.

The BA seat was designed, to ensure your head was properly supported and there has to be a slight allowence for the seat being in 3 parts.

As far as marketing is concerned, what ever the angle 180 deg or 178 deg, it always gives me a very good nights sleep.

[Author]

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