Air France fined Euros 240,000 for delays at CDG. Union threatens strike.

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This topic contains 19 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  christopheL 28 Jul 2017
at 22:26
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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)

  • AMcWhirter
    Participant

    A short while ago ‘FaroFlyer’ started a thread re security delays at BCN.

    There’s a similar situation at CDG where, on the night of 23/24 July, Air France was fined Euros 240,000 because eight of its long-haul flights departed after midnight. Apparently airlines pay a penalty fee if their flights depart after 00.00.

    All these flights should have departed punctually but were delayed because passengers were delayed in reaching the boarding gates owing to police controls.

    The problem is that Air France schedules some of its long-haul flights to depart from CDG quite close to midnight. Services to places such as PVG, HKG, GIG and GRU are timed to depart around 23.30 which leaves little margin for error.

    If you check the situation at FRA or LHR (which both impose curfews) you will see that the last long-haul flights of the day depart much earlier.

    According to one of my Twitter followers the delays are caused by a shortage of airport police who, since the state of emergency was declared, have been deployed elsewhere.

    What it means is that passengers taking those very late flights from CDG must allow extra time in case there are delays.

    But that’s not the end of the story.

    A few hours ago it was announced in France that trade union Force Ouvriere has decided to call a strike because of the “massive increase of attacks” against Air France staff.

    According to the union rep, Air France employees “serve as punching ball” for passengers because of the long queues caused by the tightening of border controls.

    IF (and I must stress the strike may not take place) the strike does happen it will start on July 29 and run until August 6.

    http://www.ouest-france.fr/economie/syndicats/roissy-appel-la-greve-apres-des-agressions-contre-le-personnel-d-air-france-5156585


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I would have thought that AF would have grounds to claim from Surete Nationale, which I believe is the entity supposedly responsible for border controls.

    Since it’s all taxpayers’ money I don’t suppose anyone, other than the taxpayers who have no say, gives a stuff anyway.


    esselle
    Participant

    Much to my surprise, because it is not normally like this at all, I passed through PAF and security at CDG 2E yesterday in about 5 minutes; no queues, no delays, no problems. At 17.00!!


    christopheL
    Participant

    @esselle
    100 more policemen have been appointed at both ORY and CDG which may explain your 5mn wait at security on Tuesday.

    @capetonianm
    Sorry to disappoint you : AF has been privatized 13 years ago …


    capetonianm
    Participant

    AF privatised ……. that’s a joke! Who is subsidising its inefficiency and poor labour practice?


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    An update. By the way I made an error. AF is having to pay Euros 280,000 in fines (not Euros 240,000).

    European passengers face major airport delays this summer


    christopheL
    Participant

    @capetonianm

    There are so many times when passion has the edge over reason.

    http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance/financial-information/capital-structure

    Will you ever have time to make reason prevailing over passion when writing a comment about AF and French people ?


    FaroFlyer
    Participant

    capetonianm,

    If you read the news re AF/KLM buying 31% of Virgin Atlantic you will see that there are also 2 x 10% stakes in AF/KLM each valued at €375 million so AF/KLM is worth upwards of €3,750 million


    capetonianm
    Participant

    christopheL : You’re (probably deliberately) choosing to misunderstand what I wrote. I am quite aware of the shareholding structure of AF, I know it’s nominally state owned, my question was : “Who is subsidising its inefficiency and poor labour practice?” That will never change.
    As you may have surmised, I dislike the French as a nation and despise the way they ‘work’, and I am sure you wanted me to put that in writing so that you can protest, but that does not stop me from seeing the reality.

    FF : I did see that news. I’m assuming that KLM brings the greater value into that equation, AF has a lot of dead wood to get rid of.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Oops …. Above is opposite of what I meant to say :
    “I know that AF is nominally privately owned”.
    Emphasis on ‘nominally’.


    christopheL
    Participant

    @capetonianm

    I do not need you to put in wrinting your opninion about AF and French people. Yous posts are clear enough on this point and it’s your choice.

    My concern is that what you call your “question” looks more like an assertion that AF is subsidised i.e. publicly funded by the French government which obviously is no more the case.

    You are assuming a lot but you don’t give any kind of explanation about which kind of subsidies/state aids AF could benefit apart from “AF privatised … That’s a joke”!

    Any explanation about what makes you assume AF privatization is a joke will be welcome to avoid any deliberate misunderstanding of what you wrote.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I do not need you to put in wrinting your opninion about AF and French people. Yous posts are clear enough on this point and it’s your choice.

    That’s good, I do like to be clear and avoid doubt.

    You presumably know that the French state is centralised and controlling, and that the leadership of the country is controlled by the unions, encouraging the massive industrial and labour problems that beset the country and all its major industries. Until France has a leader that has the cojones to face up to the unions and break the expectation of workers in public enterprises that they have jobs for life and can retire in their 50s on very generous pensions, and that not working effectively will result in sacking with no ‘chomage’, those problems will persist.

    Air France is a classic model of how not to run a public enterprise, and regardless of who owns it, on paper, it is running on ‘government’ money, albeit that the situation is obfuscated by the politicians. Where does ‘government’ money come from? Clue : I don’t think it comes from the fairy on the top of the Christmas tree.


    christopheL
    Participant

    It’s better not talking than talking non sense.

    You are focusing on public enterprises which are now very few in France AF not being one of them despite your assumption.

    Jobs for life are still a reality in French public services but for sure they are not in former public enterprises like AF.

    As far as “very generous pensions” are concerned, please have a look at the following article published on the website of a French but very liberal TV regarding the huge problem some airline is facing with it’s pilot’s pension scheme which seems to be far more generous than those of a so called French public enterprise

    http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/entreprise/les-retraites-des-pilotes-klm-risquent-de-plomber-air-france-klm-1025441.html

    As you may probably despise French press I found some other articles which are written in english.

    https://www.ipe.com/countries/netherlands/dutch-court-blocks-airline-klm-from-launching-pension-fund-for-pilots/www.ipe.com/countries/netherlands/dutch-court-blocks-airline-klm-from-launching-pension-fund-for-pilots/10016500.fullarticle

    https://www.ipe.com/countries/netherlands/dutch-airline-klm-reaches-settlement-with-pilots-over-pensions/www.ipe.com/countries/netherlands/dutch-airline-klm-reaches-settlement-with-pilots-over-pensions/10016754.fullarticle

    It appears that KLM management didn’t have the so called cojones in their talk with the KLM pilot unions in 2000. And do you know what : it was before the takeover of KLM by AF !

    It is your right to “dislike the French as a nation and despise the way they ‘work’”.

    It is sad your posts are only driven by passion with no trace of reason.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    If Air France is not a public enterprise, what would you call it? It may not be one in the strict sense of full state ownership but it is that in all but name, it suffers from the same mentality.

    It is rather a pity as AF, when in the air, and when not on strike, is a good airline. It is let down by its appalling labour relations and by the ground staff at its main hub.


    christopheL
    Participant

    I call it a French airline with it’s French culture. I don’t call it a French public service because as e French man living in France I know what French public services are and I know that AF is (fortunately) very different !

    I call KLM a Dutch airline with it’s Dutch culture which is not mine.

    And I call BA a British airline with a very British culture which is sometimes slightly too much for me.

    All three do their job in respect of their national culture and generally do it quite well (I flew very often with AF and BA, less often with KLM).

    I rate them AF #1 (the French attitudes of this airline appeal to me), BA #2 (the “one pound is one pound” policy of BA hurts me more and more) and KLM #3 (I still need to dream when travelling onboard a plane and unfortunately I find it difficult to dream when onboard a KLM plane).

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