Aer Lingus – BA

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This topic contains 35 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  FDOS_UK 29 Oct 2016
at 16:46

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  • Anonymous


    news that Aer Lingus is increasing LIverpool-Dublin freqs (large irish pop. in Liverpool), primarily to feed transatlantic traffic – absolutely the right strategy (should also increase freqs from other regional airports)

    also think that BA should move a couple of daytime LHR-JFK flights to Dublin (perhaps basing a couple 777s there in green livery) with feeds from LHR being upgraded to a bigger aircraft (an A330 perhaps, SQ flies SIN-KUL with A330s)

    this would free slots for expansion of routes eastwards (Tehran, Jakarta, Vietnam)


    I’m very surprised that there is a level of transatlantic travel from Liverpool that justifies 2 more flights a day to Dublin. I suspect most of it will be low yield business and leisure travel between the two cities. It’s a welcome development for one of the UK’s worst airports but let’s not get carried away.


    I read the article, thank you. It simply suggests the possibility of connections. It doesn’t provide any empirical evidence they will actually be used.

    Tom Otley

    The forum threads and news articles often become separated, so we put the links in there. You shouldn’t see it as an answer to whatever question you were posing.


    I fear this will end in tears for EI/Stobart Air (who operate the turboprop on this route.)

    Ryanair have 4x flights per day on 737-800 and I notice that on a random day in May, their pricing is half that of EI.

    Given that most travellers buy firmly on price, I expect Ryanair to use it’s low cost base to take a hit on margins for a while and respond aggressively to EI’s initiative.

    Who will blink first?

    HedgeFundFlyer – 19/02/2016 05:14 GMT

    Just out of interest, why would you classify Liverpool as ‘one of the UK’s worst airports?’

    It is my second local airport (only a two mile further drive than Manchester) and I find it works well enough for loco flights – is your comment generated by the airport’s apparent desire to charge for everything?

    Edited to add that Manchester Airport is only about 35 miles down the motorway from Liverpool, I wonder how significant the attraction to transatlantic pax would be? EI has a good schedule from their, on jet operated flights with better hand baggage allowance (IIRC.)


    Morning AST,
    Logically your idea of moving one of BA’s 777’s to DUB makes sense. In order for it work to generate enough Irish based point to point traffic would mean it would basically have to abandon everything that can make it be identified as a BA flight.

    In other words , IAG would have to instruct BA management to loan EI a 777 at preferential rates .
    Which comes back to my old hobby horse of legalized cartels, but this isn’t the topic for that bug bear…..

    EDIT to add……. If a plucky Ethiopian Airlines is allowed to have a go at giving the Irish a chance to fly DUB-LAX , surely one of the ME3 would fancy a pop at DUB -JFK ?


    I agree with hedgefundflyer that Liverpool truly is one of the worst airports in the UK.

    It’s not even ok for low-cost flights.

    It’s a miserable experience from the moment you pass the ‘above us only sky’ sign – which should read ‘above us only sky filled with the lucky people who flew from Manchester instead’ .

    It’s a grim shopping centre with a runway attached and a ‘we want your money’ sign every 3 yards.


    Why are you comparing EI and Ryanair on this route. EI are doubling frequency because obviously there is demand. EI are primarily using this as feed for longhaul, FR are using it for point to point which is why there is a price difference when you are comparing prices. EI flights attract frequent flyers who are loyal to Avios, Gold Circle etc, and EI will price point to point accordingly to discourage these services being used for that purpose.

    With regard to BA 777’s being based in Dublin, it won’t happen, aerlingus crew are not trained to operate on Boeing aircraft, training etc will cost too much. I think you will see a330’s from aer Lingus and BA 767/777 operating regularly to Dublin and frequency being reduced to free up some LHR slots.


    amc1234 – 19/02/2016 13:35 GMT

    Are you serious in asking why I posted about Ryanair’s response to EI?

    Ryanair are the dominant carrier on the route, have the lower cost base and are like a 500kg Grizzly bear – they do want they want and have have teeth and claws to make it count.

    If they decide to, they could take EI off this route – perhaps they will settle for maulting them around a bit.

    If you wish to think about longer term strategy, Ryanair has said it sees itself as a feeder to long haul airlines and that’s another reason to respond aggressively in this instance, to send a message that it’s better to collaborate than compete.

    Very clever company, Ryanair.


    AMC1234 – 777 training costs?

    relocated / transferred BA staff (all the same group of companies & Dublin is hardly a hardship (there would still be a strike))

    LHR frequencies to Ireland cannot be reduced for a minimum of 5 years (i think that was an EU condition in the takeover)


    FDOS- I’m saying Ryanair and EI are competing for different passengers on this route. FR point to point and EI transfer traffic. FR aren’t a feeder airline at this point and to become one they need to form alliances which they almost certainly will do in the future but until that point EI should be applauded don’t be scared of the big garish boy on the street, chase your own business.

    AisleSeat – I was under the impression that Aer Lingus are prevented from reducing frequency under the deal terms, BA can do what it wants with its own slots. Also the cost involved with transferring and paying relocation expenses to BA staff to move to Dublin, it won’t happen.


    amc1234 – 20/02/2016 02:58 GMT

    I very much doubt that Ryanair will worry who EI is targeting; what they will see is a competitor doubling up their schedule on a route.

    As Sun Tzu wrote “When ten to the enemy’s one, surround him”.

    The opportunity to do that is now, before the new schedule becomes established and if I was Ryanair CSO, I would throw the kitchen sink at the route and defend my dominant position.


    OK, so the reality as shown on both Aer Lingus and BA websites appears to be this.

    Up to April there are 2 (sometimes 3) flights operated by Aer Lingus on A320. Plane has +/-174 seats so total seats 348.

    From May there are 4 flights operated by Stobart on ATR72. Plane has +/- 68 seats so total seats 272.

    To me that appears to be a reduction in capacity even if it’s an increase in frequency.

    Unless I am missing something it also means the comment in the BT article that “the carrier currently offers two flights per day (three on Thursdays and Fridays), operated by Stobart Air on behalf of Aer Lingus Regional” appears to be incorrect, as the flights are operated directly by Aer Lingus.

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