A serious long-haul airline network outside London?

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)

  • transtraxman
    Participant

    With three pieces of news published it seems that Aer Lingus is going to take off from Manchester.
    “Aer Lingus Adds manchester base next summer”, (Airways Magazine, 17-11-20)

    Aer Lingus Adds Manchester Base Next Summer

    “Aer Lingus to launch transatlantic flights from Manchester”, (UK Aviation News, 17-11-20)

    Aer Lingus to launch transatlantic flights from Manchester

    “What Will Aer Lingus Use Its New Manchester Slots For?”, (Simple Flying, 19-11-20)

    What Will Aer Lingus Use Its New Manchester Slots For?

    Such is the frustration in the majority of the UK that the supposed flag carrier ignores everybody outside the M25. The “provinces” will welcome with open arms the efforts to be made by our Irish cousins to connect us to cities further afield, especially across the wide-water.
    There is a large diaspora of Irish and descendents in the North West of England, the Midlands and Central Scotland. I am sure there are more than enough to make many flights to North America viable.

    Now if the airline (IAG) powers that be had a good look at the diasporas in the heavily populated areas of the UK, they would see very large numbers of South Asians – Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians and Sri Lankans – in the far northern reaches of the English Empire (north of the Watford Gap). If you are a service airline, BA, then serve them.

    BA will not make much progress until it can apply its skills to its provincial markets – learn some Geordie and Lowland Scots.

    We welcome the arrival of Aer Lingus to Manchester to link us to different cities. Let us hope it is the beginning of a different mindset within IAG.

    P.S. One question: Was does 1500 slots mean? I have seen so many definitions refering to the summer season I do not understand over which period we are refering. How many take off/landing slots does that mean per week?

    6 users thanked author for this post.

    transtraxman
    Participant

    “Aer Lingus obtains slots for long-haul ops from Manchester”, (ch-aviation, 24-11-20)
    So my question has been answered. 1500 slots which means 13 for the week starting 26th April then 58 weekly from the following week till the end of the season. There is great speculation about which cities are going to be the destinations.
    Simple Flying suggested the following, ” Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York JFK, Miami, and Orlando on the East Coast. Aer Lingus could serve at least the first four with its A321LRs, joining JetBlue in the push for narrowbody capacity transatlantic routes. Los Angeles and Las Vegas have also been mentioned as probable destinations, routes for which the carrier would deploy its A330.”
    I would not expect all those cities to be served initially as I think the IAG airlines would adopt a more conservative approach. I do not see them competing against (other) oneworld partners so that would depend on American Airlines´ plans. Also I think Virgin Atlantic (plus Delta) would be taken seriously. The only destinations where the airlines might compete could be on the New York and Boston routes. Anyway 58 slots means 29 weekly departures. One can do the maths oneself but it could be anything from 6 x 4 flights weekly(fw) plus 1 x 5 (fw), to 4 x 6 (fw) plus 1 x 5 (fw). Take your pick!

    https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/97652-aer-lingus-obtains-slots-for-long-haul-ops-from-manchester


    IanFromHKG
    Participant

    Bear in mind that Aer Lingus looks set to join the joint business arrangement between BA, AA etc. Looks like a win-win for all (oh except for the non-IAG non-OW airlines, but I don’t really care about them lol)


    canucklad
    Participant

    I’m surprised at Aer Lingus. If I was advising the top brass at EI I’d be stressing the uniqueness of their US pre-clearance at Dublin and adopting the KLM model.
    With that added benefit they enjoy that other European hubs don’t , and add in the western location of Dublin i’d have thought diluting traffic from the UK would be counter productive

    It’s telling that IAG would rather see a foreign carrier fly from the UK to the US than it’s own flagship carrier …. Just saying , and another example of legalised cartel like behaviour


    SimonS1
    Participant

    I can’t see any way BA could create a long haul network from Manchester. There may be some large diaspora groups in the region, but that is completely different to generating enough traffic to sustain a regular route. Particularly as pre-Covid the likes of Emirates and Qatar were offering cost effective solutions with multiple frequencies.

    A few flights here and there doesn’t make a sustainable model.

    Also I have to laugh when I see comments like “such is the frustration in the majority of the UK that the supposed flag carrier ignores everybody outside the M25”. I think most people have figured by now that BA is a commercial business, which operates to generate profits for shareholders, not to deliver some form of social service. Still I suppose these tired old cliches have to be given an airing every now and then.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    esselle
    Participant

    I can’t see any way BA could create a long haul network from Manchester. There may be some large diaspora groups in the region, but that is completely different to generating enough traffic to sustain a regular route. Particularly as pre-Covid the likes of Emirates and Qatar were offering cost effective solutions with multiple frequencies.

    A few flights here and there doesn’t make a sustainable model.

    Also I have to laugh when I see comments like “such is the frustration in the majority of the UK that the supposed flag carrier ignores everybody outside the M25”. I think most people have figured by now that BA is a commercial business, which operates to generate profits for shareholders, not to deliver some form of social service. Still I suppose these tired old cliches have to be given an airing every now and then.

    Fully agree SimonS1.

    Ayling ditched the Union flag in favour of snazzy paintings on the tails, and Branson nicked it and put it on his winglets.

    That is when BA stopped being our flag carrier.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    I can’t see any way BA could create a long haul network from Manchester. There may be some large diaspora groups in the region, but that is completely different to generating enough traffic to sustain a regular route. Particularly as pre-Covid the likes of Emirates and Qatar were offering cost effective solutions with multiple frequencies.

    A few flights here and there doesn’t make a sustainable model.

    Also I have to laugh when I see comments like “such is the frustration in the majority of the UK that the supposed flag carrier ignores everybody outside the M25”. I think most people have figured by now that BA is a commercial business, which operates to generate profits for shareholders, not to deliver some form of social service. Still I suppose these tired old cliches have to be given an airing every now and then.

    Fully agree SimonS1.

    Ayling ditched the Union flag in favour of snazzy paintings on the tails, and Branson nicked it and put it on his winglets.

    That is when BA stopped being our flag carrier.

    Many would say it stopped being our flag carrier in 1987 when the airline was privatised and became accountable to shareholders, not to HM Treasury.

    It just so happened it was called British Airways, but there never was any agreement it would continue providing a social service. As you say, Ayling’s model made that quite clear. In fact now it is part of IAG the term ‘British’ is open to debate as IAG is incorporated and domiciled for tax in Spain.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    rferguson
    Participant

    I think flying from the regions (and in particular MAN) has been raised quite a few times on the forum. Specifically ‘why does Virgin do it and BA does not’?

    The answer back then was likely the same it still is – any company will use its resources to where they can get the maximum return on them. I don’t think the UK has an official ‘flag carrier’. BA is the largest UK carrier which often sees it being appointed the title but Emirates could paint a Union flag on their tail fins and be a ‘uk flag carrier’ if it wanted to. BA is a profit driven corporation, not a national service.

    BA does not have unlimited aircraft. They have a finite number of this expensive resource and use it where it will generate the most money – which is LHR/LGW.

    Surely this is the same for Virgin then?

    Not quite.

    BA has ample slots at LHR. Virgin does not. Virgin needs to look at areas outside LHR/LGW to where they can get a decent return on their resources whereas BA doesn’t have to.

    BA has never said that flying longhaul out of MAN or GLA or EDI wouldn’t be profitable. What it has said is that flying out of LHR/LGW is more profitable.

    Of course all these conversations were back in the old days ‘pre COVID’. With the change in passenger habits and demographics, who knows, we may see BA re-crunching the numbers and seeing the advantage of ex MAN flying.

    It’s worth noting though that with EI’s launch (if it happens) of flights to the US ex MAN this will still be part of the JSA with BA/AA/AY/IB. So it’s likely that BA would have had some influencing in EI setting up base at MAN. And don’t forget where BA’s new CEO just arrived from 😉

    7 users thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    Surely this is the same for Virgin then?

    Not quite.

    BA has ample slots at LHR. Virgin does not. Virgin needs to look at areas outside LHR/LGW to where they can get a decent return on their resources whereas BA doesn’t have to.

    BA has never said that flying longhaul out of MAN or GLA or EDI wouldn’t be profitable. What it has said is that flying out of LHR/LGW is more profitable.

    Exactly. Anyway if BA started flying long haul from regional airports it would likely only cannibalise their existing hub and spoke model.

    Plus of course airlines are in business to make profits (as opposed to losses) for shareholders, Virgin hasn’t been too successful on that front.


    canucklad
    Participant

    It’s worth noting though that with EI’s launch (if it happens) of flights to the US ex MAN this will still be part of the JSA with BA/AA/AY/IB. So it’s likely that BA would have had some influencing in EI setting up base at MAN. And don’t forget where BA’s new CEO just arrived from

    And get a cut of the revenue generated , although their input is negligible

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    Reports emerging on the Twitter feeds that BA has applied for slots to restart the LGW – MAN route for summer 2021 with 3x per day frequency each way. For example:

    A possible source of feeder traffic to the Aer Lingus routes perhaps.


    esselle
    Participant

    Reports emerging on the Twitter feeds that BA has applied for slots to restart the LGW – MAN route for summer 2021 with 3x per day frequency each way. For example:

    A possible source of feeder traffic to the Aer Lingus routes perhaps.

    I don’t remember when it was that they pulled this route, but it was very busy in the 90’s.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    I don’t remember when it was that they pulled this route, but it was very busy in the 90’s.

    March 2013. In the latter days demand had fallen, and it was one of the worst routes for punctuality. I used it about 6x a year as I was working for a Manchester company at the time, it wasn’t uncommon that the last flight back from MAN was an hour or two late.

    I can’t believe they are looking for connecting traffic at Gatwick, as most LH flights have been shifted to Heathrow.


    Nogbad01
    Participant

    This is great news. I used that service all the time (I have business interests in Brighton) and there used to be a choice of 3 carriers.
    They all seemed to pull the plug at the same time and that was that.
    It was always busy, and I remember flying back to MAN on the last day and the cabin crew announcing the end of the route to the full cabin and the shocked response.
    In those days it was operated by BA’s tired old 737 fleet.


    Carajillo2Sugar
    Participant

    That’s good to hear and almost certainly a route I shall be utilising. For me, home to Gatwick takes approx 30-mins, whereas home to Heathrow is approx 90-mins, meaning each round-trip can be reduced by at least 2-hours.

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