300 Euros fine for not wearing a mask inflight to Amsterdam

Back to Forum
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 55 total)

  • ASK1945
    Participant

    Don’t be silly, Philip. I don’t have to prove myself here, any more than any other contributor.

    I remain of the view that it was an opinion piece, not original research. I agreed with the opinion and that’s my opinion.


    PhilipHart
    Participant

    LOL

    You’re the one who bigged yourself up.

    And also the one who dissed a paper because it wasn’t “peer-reviewed”, even though it was a literature review / meta-analysis.

    And now you say that you shouldn’t have to prove your bona fides?

    I think that tells us all we need to know about your credibility.


    TupeloKid
    Participant

    For the last 5 months, I have been carrying out a scientific experiment with face masks.

    For between 4 and 8 hours per day, depending how much time I am outside home, I have been wearing a face mask. My experiment is to measure whether my breath goes through the mask without the velocity of my breath (and therefore any particles it carries) being impeded, or whether the breath is blocked by the mask and diverted at reduced velocity to an area closer to me, i.e. further away from other people.

    In order to arrive at a statistically valid sample, I took around 15 breaths per minute, thereby giving me a total statistical population of 540,000 to 1,080,000 breaths. I found that in each case (a) I could detect little or no air movement even inches in front of my face mask and (b) there was greater warmth around my face, suggesting that my breath was remaining closer to my face than if I hadn’t worn a mask. (The hours during the day when I didn’t wear a mask, e.g. when I was at home, served as my comparison point.)

    In order to achieve peer review of this experiment, I managed to get 6 million other people in Hong Kong to carry out the same exercise.
    Curiously, the peer reviewers found very similar results.

    I am now wondering what to do with these data. I had considered checking whether there was any correlation with a lower rate of viral infection, say in a tightly packed Asian city once described as part of the epicentre of Covid, with hundreds of flights and numerous land and sea crossings with China, but perhaps this is a little far-fetched.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    I like the opening line TupeloKid
    ‘For the last 5 months, I have been carrying out a scientific experiment with face masks.’
    as I have been doing exactly the same scientific experiment and unbelievably so has my family.
    We have found similar results so perhaps we should join forces!
    Hong Kong University would be a good first point of contact as they have a lot of research capacity and are certain to be interested.
    Or perhaps apply for a government grant to continue this valuable experiment – in the present climate they should be good for $100 million minimum.

    Seriously though it can surely be only social dinosaurs and refugees from the flat earth society that are unwilling to accept that masks are an essential and effective tool in fighting this virus.
    That unfortunately seems to include most of the UK and US populations not forgetting the snake oil salesman that is temporarily lodging (hopefully)in the White House.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    ASK1945
    Participant

    LOL

    You’re the one who bigged yourself up.

    And also the one who dissed a paper because it wasn’t “peer-reviewed”, even though it was a literature review / meta-analysis.

    And now you say that you shouldn’t have to prove your bona fides?

    I think that tells us all we need to know about your credibility.

    Definition of “dissed”: “to treat with disrespect or contempt

    I wrote:

    “An excellent article, with which I agree with the tenure of what he writes. But it is not “peer reviewed” so must be treated only as a personal opinion, unfortunately“.

    Definition of “peer reviewed”: “The goal of peer review is to assess the quality of articles submitted for publication in a scholarly journal. The reviewers are impartial and specialise in the same scholarly area as the author; they are considered the author’s peers (hence “peer review”). They check the manuscript for accuracy and assess the validity of the research methodology and procedures“.

    I doubt that I need to add another word about my credibility.


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Report by Forbes suggests US carriers (at least on domestic flights) may not be so strict. American Airways is mentioned here.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/06/16/american-tells-flight-attendants-if-passengers-wont-wear-masks-de-escalate-but-take-names/#4a319c561637


    MarcusGB
    Participant

    As has been clear with the WHO, and in many discussions on here, the wearing of a face mask Will NOT prevent you inhaling Covid 19.

    Research shows the particles of Covid are far smaller than face mask protection capability, and depend on the concentrate of the virus.
    Physical distance remains the main best method, and that of being Outside compared to in, or ventilation, which produces the Viral Load you receive.

    Medical grade face Masks, need to be Disposed of after each use, as a Clinical Waste Product! That means Equivalent of Hospital Waste bins, along with dressings, surgical disposables etc…
    Will the airports or Airlines be providing those, or train anyone to do this?
    I very much doubt it….
    And so they will become a great source of infection sitting wherever they are left.

    Non medical face masks, need to be washed after EACH use.

    EU Guidelines supported by similar WHO, and incorporated into Clinical Policies and procedures in the NHS England….

    “It should be ensured that medical face masks (and respirators) are conserved and prioritised for use
    by healthcare providers, especially given the current shortages of respiratory personal protective
    equipment reported across EU/EEA countries.
     The use of face masks may provide a false sense of security leading to suboptimal physical distancing,
    poor respiratory etiquette and hand hygiene – and even not staying at home when ill.
     There is a risk that improper removal of the face mask, handling of a contaminated face mask or an
    increased tendency to touch the face while wearing a face mask by healthy persons might actually
    increase the risk of transmission.

    The face mask should completely cover the face from the bridge of the nose down to the chin.
    Clean hands with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitiser before putting on
    and taking off the face mask.
    When taking off the face mask, remove it from behind, avoiding to touch the front
    side. Dispose of the face mask safely if it is disposable. Wash your hands or apply alcohol-based hand sanitiser
    immediately after removing the face mask.
    Washable, reusable face should be washed as soon as possible after
    each use, using common detergent at 60 °C. Campaigns for the appropriate use of face masks may improve the
    effectiveness of the measure.

    It should be emphasised that use of face masks in the community should be considered only as a
    complementary measure and not as a replacement of the core preventive measures that are recommended
    to reduce community transmission including physical distancing, staying home when ill, teleworking if possible,
    respiratory etiquette, meticulous hand hygiene and avoiding touching the face, nose, eyes and mouth.
    Appropriate use of face masks is important.”

    EU Guidelines…”

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    PhilipHart
    Participant

    Or everyone could just wise up and realise that #COVID19 is a slightly more nasty form of the flu which arrived – whether by accident or design – a few months after the traditional “flu season” – https://hectordrummond.com/2020/05/09/alistair-haimes-the-virus-that-turned-up-late/

    Indeed, if it had arrived during the “flu season”, it is debatable – given the minimal symptomatic differentiators – whether the majority of the public would have realised it was anything other than traditional flu; apart from a slight increase in excess deaths – something which has been seen previously during earlier “flu seasons”. (Check out 2018 which was particularly bad)

    And yet, many people have become willing accomplices in the destruction of the UK economy, and the inevitable increased misery and early deaths of those who have been denied treatment (or even diagnosis) for chronic diseases. Not to mention those driven into abject poverty, with all the accompanying health and social devastation that will bring.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    AsiaPacific
    Participant

    Morning all,

    I am continually amazed at the lack of willingness to undertake a few simple behaviours and cannot really understand why despite them working in other parts of the world . Must be the bravado and exceptionalism… of we know better …

    Many countries that have integrated approaches , like masks for all, temp checks when entering premises, hand gels literally everywhere,contact tracing that works , as well as mandatory registering when entering shops etc… are fairing considerably better than home shores. How many dead now ? 65,000 ?

    But .. according to so many , masks don’t work .. still amazed they wear them in hospitals then .. but who am I to question…

    I for one , do not enter shops , etc ( which you cannot do btw without a mask) or travel on transport unless everyone is masked … and only 58 deaths and about 3000 cases of covid in my country of 70M people … but hey what are we doing wrong???

    Good luck to all …

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    TupeloKid
    Participant

    Morning all,

    I am continually amazed at the lack of willingness to undertake a few simple behaviours and cannot really understand why despite them working in other parts of the world . Must be the bravado and exceptionalism… of we know better …

    Many countries that have integrated approaches , like masks for all, temp checks when entering premises, hand gels literally everywhere,contact tracing that works , as well as mandatory registering when entering shops etc… are fairing considerably better than home shores. How many dead now ? 65,000 ?

    But .. according to so many , masks don’t work .. still amazed they wear them in hospitals then .. but who am I to question…

    I for one , do not enter shops , etc ( which you cannot do btw without a mask) or travel on transport unless everyone is masked … and only 58 deaths and about 3000 cases of covid in my country of 70M people … but hey what are we doing wrong???

    Good luck to all …

    Indeed. The bizarre approach of trying to think of a narrow situation where a mask might not in itself be 100% effective and then extrapolating from that to saying that masks are INeffective and should not be used at all baffles me. Or saying that some masks are not as good as others so we shouldn’t use ANY. Or saying that they are ineffective, but should be reserved for health professionals (because they work for doctors and nurses but not for ordinary mortals). Or saying that some other preventive measures are effective so only follow those and consciously forgo the benefits of masks.

    I wonder how many lives have been lost through such buffoonery, dressed up as medical science.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    In the UK alone of the 40K+ deaths various web sites are speculating (for pure informed and uninformed speculation is all can be) that up to 60% of these deaths could have been prevented if a proper prevention regime had been put in place early enough. Of course masks would have been far from the sole answer but it is irrefutable that they would have played a very significant (and laterly are) part in saving lives and preventing an even worse disaster. History will not be kind.

    It seems that the situation in the USA is now totally out of control with infections and deaths spiraling out of all control in many states. It was sickening to watch a clip on the BBC news website of a large aggressive group of Texas rednecks refusing to wear masks and threatening police who were endeavoring to enforce the law. So utterly stupid!

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    canucklad
    Participant

    I wore a mask for the first time yesterday, complying with the new rules here in Scotland. Totally unpleasant and a pretty pointless exercise .
    I found myself sub-consciously adjusting it whenever it became uncomfortable
    Which means that if I was a carrier of the virus anything I touched afterwards would be infected

    So, I won’t be rushing to wear it again. Which means my much needed wallet will be staying firmly shut until the restriction is lifted.

    And as shops start to re-open I wonder how many people are like me, and will avoid going out because they will need to wear a mask.

    And I’m afraid, the minimal difference , especially wearing them outside will jeopardise jobs . Perception wise, masks = danger . In Scotland that danger level is now negligible, but mask wearing en masse suggests otherwise, further fuelling the paranoiac behaviour of our fellow citizens.

    I’ve also noticed a substantial littering problem with disregarded masks polluting verges, paths and overflowing litter bins.

    It’s also been proven that mask wearers tend to ventilate particles to the left and right and above rather than straight forward meaning seating configurations on aircraft should be redesigned ! .

    By the way, the person deserved to be fined because they knew the consequences before they chose their course of action

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    canucklad
    You have always struck me as a very informed, grounded sensible chap but your above post saddens me.
    Masks do take a while to adjust to and for the first couple of weeks I found them ‘difficult’.
    I and 7 million hongkongers have been wearing them now for 4 months and the advantages are obvious to all – no epidemic in densely populated Hong Kong and no littering.
    For the past 3 weeks the temperatures here are well over 30C but 99 % of the people the population are still wearing masks and no local cases for a very long time – it cannot be coincidence.
    They have worked for many countries and are undeniably of considerable assistance in containing this horror.
    Please persevere.

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    canucklad
    Participant

    Masks do take a while to adjust to and for the first couple of weeks I found them ‘difficult’.
    I and 7 million hongkongers have been wearing them now for 4 months and the advantages are obvious to all – no epidemic in densely populated Hong Kong and no littering.

    My primary concern is two fold….
    That mask wearing becomes the continual norm, and the consequence of that on our long term health. IMO if people start to see masks as a health benefit they risk (especially in the sanatized west) further weakening their immune system , which in turn makes it more likely that simple colds /flu become more dangerous.

    I do agree with you, the premise that every little margin can help, I just wonder why the implementation at local level is so illogical in its timing.
    And whilst we all focus on another imposition on our liberty, our government gets let off the hook with their abysmal attempt at what will really prove to be deciding factor in getting rid of this devastating virus ——-Test, trace and Isolate

    It’s also an economic burden on those who rely on public transport, especially those who are on the breadline . When every last penny you have is spent on food , it’s pretty hard to find extra money to buy over priced mandatory equipment that allows you freedom from your lockdown

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    TupeloKid
    Participant

    Here is a statistical analysis of the effects of mask-wearing and social distancing:

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 55 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Business Traveller April 2020 edition
Business Traveller April 2020 edition
Be up-to-date
Magazine Subscription
To see our latest subscription offers for Business Traveller editions worldwide, click on the Subscribe & Save link below
Polls