300 Euros fine for not wearing a mask inflight to Amsterdam
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at 15:07 by AMcWhirter.
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AMcWhirterParticipantThis may be the first time an airline passenger (in Europe) has been fined for not wearing a face mask on a flight.
According to Luchtvaartniuuws.nl [NL] a passenger flying into Schiphol today (Friday) had refused to wear a face mask on the flight.
The passenger was met by the Royal Netherlands Marechaussee on arrival and had to pay a settlement (fine) of Euros 300.
The airline was not named.
Vliegtuigpassagier 300 euro armer na weigering om mondkapje te dragen https://t.co/b3BbZ9jV5g pic.twitter.com/5dOCsyP3jZ
— Luchtvaartnieuws.nl (@luchtvaart) June 5, 2020
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5 Jun 2020
at 16:22
capetonianmParticipantThe passenger was met by the Royal Netherlands Marechaussee
The Koninklijke Marechaussee do not mess around. I have had the opportunity to observe them in action twice, in Leiden, once when they raided an internet cafe that was being used and abused by Nigerian scammers, and another time when a drunken British troublemaker was abusing and threatening people who were quietly sitting outside enjoying music and drinks a cafe cafe in the square.
In both instances they started off gently and good-humouredly until the miscreants hit them. I would not have wanted to be on the receiving end of what they then dished out.
I may, or may not, agree with people having to wear a face mask on a flight, but that is not the point. If that is conditional upon travelling, it would have been made clear, and everyone has to adhere to the rule.
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5 Jun 2020
at 16:35
AMcWhirterParticipantNoel Philips recently released this video. It was filmed starting at Schiphol and onboard a KLM flight to Stockholm whilst making a business trip.
It is interesting in that you can see the current situation both at an almost deserted Schiphol, at the boarding gate and onboard the KLM flight.
As you can see KLM is blocking the middle seat. Only aisle and window seats are sold.
KLM staff are clearly heard informing passengers of their airline’s “simplified service” and that only “water and soft drinks” are served.
“During the flight it is mandatory to wear a face mask or an appropriate face covering.”
6 Jun 2020
at 15:56
JamseyboyParticipantFirst of all! Hi everyone you can call me Jamseyboy! I am new in the forum and very nice meeting you guys. I have been following BT for a while now and decided to be one of you here!
Now regarding the topic, sincerly shock about the fine. I am also not so willingly to wear one but I am afraid to be infected and respect the wellbeing of others so I force myself in areas in which they are compulsory, inspite of some breathing problems and almost fainting situations with it.
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6 Jun 2020
at 19:15
PhilipHartParticipantMaybe the folk running the airlines should “follow the science” …
Masks Don’t Work: A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy
6 Jun 2020
at 19:46
MartynSinclairParticipantAnyone know what app/software Noel was using at 9:40 to monitor his flight and does it need wifi.?
6 Jun 2020
at 20:58
PhilipHartParticipantAsk him in the comment section of the YouTube. He’s generally really quick to respond.
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6 Jun 2020
at 21:02
andrew.gillParticipantHi Philip
The article you quote cites a number of published papers
I’ve only read the first two, but here are extracts
“A larger study is needed to definitively establish noninferiority of no mask use.” from Jacobs et al
“Further studies in controlled settings and studies of natural infections in healthcare and community settings are required to better define the effectiveness of face masks and respirators in preventing influenza virus transmission.” from Cowling et al
There isn’t enough data to support or dismiss, but if there’s even a 1% likelihood to reduce transmission, I believe it’s the right thing to do and not an infringement on my freedom
andrew
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11 Jun 2020
at 12:02
PhilipHartParticipantHi @andrew.gill
I really do appreciate that you’ve taken the trouble to actually review the meta-analysis, and even to have read some of the papers.
But I do detect a sort of innate “glass half empty” Cassandraism about the quotes you chose to emphasise. (If I’m mis-characterising you, I apologise profusely.)
Nonetheless, if you truly believed in the “logic” of your final sentence, you would actually wear a mask every second of every day.
Meanwhile, for other BT readers, here is more digestible article explaining the hazards of facemasks …
15 Jun 2020
at 20:48
ASK1945Participant[postquote quote=1000649][/postquote]
An excellent article, with which I agree with the tenure of what he writes. But it is not “peer reviewed” so must be treated only as a personal opinion, unfortunately.
Whether he is right or wrong, I have written on this Forum many times that the majority of people I see every day who are wearing masks are not wearing them appropriately anyway – so are wasting their time. Indeed, taking his conclusion that it may even be more dangerous to wear a mask (in certain circumstances), I made that point on this Forum several weeks ago.
15 Jun 2020
at 21:23
PhilipHartParticipantHi @ASK1945
Point of information.
While it can be argued that the papers selected for a meta-analysis may have been included because of the personal bias of the author – and here I challenge you to show me any author without such biases – if those papers have in fact been peer-reviewed then your point is moot.
Also, and I don’t know how much you know about scientific publication these days, a large majority of papers are issued as “pre-prints”; in other words without full peer review. This is done so that important ideas can be circulated quickly.
Something else you may or may not be aware of is that peer review is a twin-edged sword.
If you are part of the current “in-group” you will find your papers will receive favourable peer review from other members of the “in-group”, and thus the imprimatur of the scientific establishment.
But if your ideas challenge the established scientific orthodoxy, then your paper will most definitely not receive such an easy passage, and will most likely fail to be published. Not because it wasn’t scientifically worthy, but rather that it challenged the old idées fixes.
It might come as a surprise to the majority of lay folk, but science proceeds through revolution not evolution.
15 Jun 2020
at 21:54
ASK1945ParticipantPhilip
“Also, and I don’t know how much you know about scientific publication these days ………….. ”
Agreed: you did not know. I have spent over 50 years in healthcare and scientific research. I personally I have written four books and had dozens of peer reviewed papers published. So, I hope that your last response was aimed at others, as otherwise it would be very patronising.
I remain persuaded by his opinion. But I do not retract what I wrote, as others may not.
15 Jun 2020
at 22:01
PhilipHartParticipant“I personally I (sic) have written four books and had dozens of peer reviewed (sic) papers published”.
Citations, please.
15 Jun 2020
at 23:09 -
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