[Anonymous]

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

If you happen to be in Luxembourg on business between 27 May and 1 June……

http://www.luxembourg2013.lu/actu1_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_of_the_Small_States_of_Europe

….it would be worth checking out one of the events.

[AnthonyDunn]

alexpo1 – 11/04/2013 08:28 GMT

Very brave of you to cite a Wikipedia page….! 🙂

EDITED:
But what about (the Crown Dependencies of) Jersey, Guernsey, Sark, Alderney, the Isle of Man and then the (Danish) Faeroes?

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Hello Anthony

Yes, I was feeling quite reckless this morning (:-)

Quoting from the Wikipedia page:

‘The Faroe Islands are seeking to also compete at the Games; however, unlike the other participants, the Faroes are neither a sovereign nation (they are an autonomous province of Denmark) nor are they an EOC member.’

[MartinJ]

As the name suggests Crown Dependencies are dependencies, not states.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ MartinJ – 11/04/2013 19:33 GMT

They are sovereign entities under the Crown and are independent of the UK. Other than in the realm of overseas representation/diplomacy where the UK acts on their behalf, the Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey etc are sovereign/independent states. A clear manifestation of this is in their tax rules and their implementation, or otherwise, of banking regulations.

In this respect, there is not one scintilla of difference between their status and that of San Marino or Andorra- hence my original posting.

[MartinJ]

Anthony: San Marino and Andorra are sovereign nations. Crown dependencies are not – no matter how much autonomy they may have in their home affairs.

[Bath_VIP]

If Wikipedia is insufficient to decide the status of countries, then how about the CIA? Their factbook lists all of these as separate countries.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/wfbExt/region_eur.html

[MartinJ]

The CIA list you are referrring to isn’t a list of countries as it includes entries such as
* Dhekelia, a military base governed by the Commander of the British Forces in Cyprus
* European Union
* Faroe Islands, who, famously, have their own football team but that’s about as far as it goes in terms of sovereignty.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ MartinJ – 12/04/2013 13:14 GMT

I stand corrected. I have just spoken with the Head of International Relations at the States of Jersey who told me that “Whilst Jersey enjoys considerable autonomy, it is not a sovereign entity… San Marino and Andorra are sovereign states and have independent representation at the United Nations whereas Jersey does not…”

He went on to say that as a Crown Dependency, Jersey (and the same applies to Guernsey, Alderney, Sark and the Isle of Man) is at the extreme end of the “independence of action” spectrum – hence my points about tax and banking regulations. Interestingly, UK immigration legislation and status applies to Jersey etc, so Jersey citizens have standard UK passports. He was curious as to the origin of the enquiry and I was rather too bashful to confess I am afraid!

[DavidGordon10]

The definition of “country” is a very tough one, like the definition of “Europe”. (What is Europe – EU; EU + EAA; Council of Europe; “geographical” Europe up to the Urals; World Health Organization Europe? – they are all different and none of them is “right”)

For “country” the only completely safe definition is that of an independent state in full membership of the United Nations. It may not be comfortable, but it is clear. It means that the status of entities such as Transdniestria, Ossetia and Northern Cyprus is quite clear. We will all have different feelings about territories such as the Holy See, Palestine, Taiwan, Kosovo … but at least the definition is clear.

[MartinJ]

Anthony, thank you for this first-hand account. And apologies if I sounded as if I were lecturing. Indeed, country, nation and state are three very contested terms. Just ask any resident of Scotland, the Basque Country or Kosovo ….

[AnthonyDunn]

@ MartinJ – 12/04/2013 15:13 GMT

Thanks for the opportunity to learn something new for the day! Mike Entwhistle at the States of Jersey was delighted (indeed somewhat amused/bemused) to be able to answer my questions.

[Author]

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