Will Virgin Trains lose the West Coast franchise?
Back to Forum- This topic has 46 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 30 Aug 2012
at 19:28 by MikeReading.
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LeTigreParticipantWhat is there to like about First Great Western?
Old trains, painful customer service, huge inefficiencies.
So when you say “turned around” you really mean “extract money from passengers”.
On the other hand, Virgin has good OTP, new trains, stronger service than competitors, introduced wifi, shortened journey times and fought for more investment on the rail network. I agree that the way things currently work are really bad for Government finances but the Government will hopefully introduce a sustainable system for companies and passengers, not shareholders, and not a short term gain for the Government.
5 Aug 2012
at 10:59
NTarrantParticipantFGW have done a better job of refurbishing the 125 stock, with better leg room and more comfortable seats in standard class and leather seats in first class. In comparison to East Midlands Trains 125’s, FGW are far superior.
A lot of TOC’s have old trains, but sadly it is not always their fault they have old trains. It is a shame that the DfT have to micro manage rather than letting the TOC’s decide what trains they need to meet demand and comfort.
5 Aug 2012
at 11:42
SimonS1ParticipantIf you look at the National Passenger Surveys published by Passenger two things become clear:
1. First Great Western are usually near the bottom of the overall satisfaction rankings
2. Virgin are usually near the top of the overall satisfaction rankings
In the latest survey earlier this year 91% of Virgin customers were either satisfied or v satisfied compared to 82% on FGW (I use First Capital Connect every day and they at utterly awful, the second worst franchise in the country).
Unfortunately though the public is largely ignored when it comes to things like this – it all boils down to money. The government don’t really give a shit whether the service is any good as they know you have no choice, it is all part of their strategy to screw the passenger (directly or indirectly) for every penny they can.
As NIRscot says above, any competition is largely illusory, bound up in red tape and designed to protect vested interests. Plus the lack of capacity effectively blocks out any competition anyway unless you want to run services in out of the way places.
As I said before it is all a short term game. The companies operate with models that give them good returns in the early years followed by rapidly escalating premiums in later years. When the bite point is reached, both NatEx and Sea Containers have shown that you just say “f*** off”, walk away and leave the taxpayer to sort it all out.
The funniest thing of all is the sight of nationalised rail operators from other countries moving in on franchises here. I’m sure the profits they can extract here come in handy in supporting the rail networks of their home countries.
5 Aug 2012
at 11:51
AMcWhirterParticipantThe omens don’t look good for Virgin.
According to telegraph.co.uk, the Chancellor has told transport ministers to choose the highest bidder.
The other two contenders for the franchise, France’s SNCF and Holland’s Abellio, are rumoured to have bid £5 billion which is £2 billion below First Group and £1 billion below Virgin.
5 Aug 2012
at 14:51
Ah,Mr.BondParticipant@MilesFromBlighty
“Personally I hate Virgin Trains – cramped leg room, rude and inefficient staff. Don’t care who wins as long as this stops.”
This is the business model for all train companies I am afraid. I have used Virgin Trains many times and to be honest have been more than impressed with them.
5 Aug 2012
at 18:36
LuganoPirateParticipantI hope the French don’t get the franchise mainly because they would never allow anyone else to operate in Fance and have tried to block competition through the Eurotunnel. Mind you on a per km basis they are on average cheaper than UK trains and Lille – Marseille in 4.5 hours is pretty impressive!
5 Aug 2012
at 19:51
AMcWhirterParticipantLuganoPirate –
SNCF won’t win the franchise because its bid is £2 billion below what First Group. But I agree with you about restricting competition. It took ages before SNCF would allow DB’s ICE trains to run over its tracks to Paris as the French claimed they were “too heavy” compared to their TGV. Approval only came about with the opening of the Est high-speed line which links Paris with Germany.
5 Aug 2012
at 21:22
MikeReadingParticipantFirst has done an appalling job with the Great Western franchise – they have seats even more cramped than Virgin and their punctuality and overcrowding has been terrible. They’re not known as ‘Worst Late Western’ for nothing. They continually cut costs and provide the absolute minimum level of service to meet their franchise commitments. No consideration for passengers, it’s all about the shareholders. Please don’t award the franchise to them. I can assure you Virgin is the least worst option (although could do far better!)
6 Aug 2012
at 11:45
BeckyBoopParticipantI hope not. I quite like Virgin trains and over the last few months have a used them a couple of times on off peak leisure travel. Booked advanced tickets and had London to Manchester return for as little as £24!! Even though I have gone standard class, I still had a comfortable seat and helpful onboard staff. I didnt buy food on board but bought some bits from Pret at Euston before I boarded.
6 Aug 2012
at 15:52
AMcWhirterParticipantI now see on the Virgin Trains’ website that a couple of questions have been posted advising travellers what would happen to Traveller (Virgin’s loyalty scheme) members should Virgin lose the franchise.
See questions 6 and 10.
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/traveller/frequently-asked-questions/
Note that Virgin will give no guarantee that Traveller will be extended beyond its current term, even if it were to win.
And if Virgin were to lose then there is no certainty that Traveller or a similar scheme would be adopted by the winning TOC.
7 Aug 2012
at 10:49
AMcWhirterParticipantLatest update suggests that Virgin Trains will be replaced by First.
According to The Guardian “First Group is close to securing the prestigious west coast rail franchise.”
It’s believed the Department of Transport will announce the winning bid next Tuesday, August 14.
Not necessarily good news for passengers.
Adds The Guardian, “Rail industry insiders believe First Group [assuming it wins] will have to increase fares significantly from 2020 onwards because the west coast line will be full to capacity by then and it will not be possible to increase revenues by carrying more passengers.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/08/firstgroup-rail-transport?CMP=twt_fd
9 Aug 2012
at 14:45
BucksnetParticipantMaybe First West Coast will buy double deck trains to increase capacity. Unlikely, but the option is there.
Or maybe First Group will simply walk away from their payments, which are mainly at the end of the contract term, like they did with Great Western and saved themselves over £800 million.
9 Aug 2012
at 15:57
greyhawkgeoffParticipantBucksnet double deck trains are just not possible within the Uk K loading guage. Given the monster money spent in the last decade on the West Coast to add capacity and allow for the tilting Pendolino trains now running, it is a non starter. Bring on HS2 where a bigger envelope could be built, but then I doubt whether it will as it is likely to be on the same size basis as HS1 and Eurostar presently enjoy.
9 Aug 2012
at 18:50 -
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