[Binman62]

I think that Martyn has made a good point about BAs programme.

The short haul fare saver reward system works well and now represents value for money.

The long side is CRAP.

it is almost impossible to book a premium seat unless you do so a year in advance or at the very last minute. Even then it is not guaranteed. At other times there are dozens available when previously there were none….and this from an airline which once boasted the the best revenue management system in the world.

Coming home from HKG recently in F there were 5 in the cabin. 4 were my family and yet from the day I had booked 7 months earlier not one single seat was made available, even at the last minute for upgrades. 9 empty seats when demand is high is madness.

As for long haul WT or WT +…..well that is just laughable.the fees are outrageous and it represents a huge rip off rather than just poor value for money.

Using them on other airlines can be good but BA appear to be charging YQ for some flights when the airline you travel on does not charge this for their own members. You have to ask who gets the money?

The system is complex confused lacks transparency and as Martin said

Unfit for purpose.

[VintageKrug]

So if it’s so awful, how come you managed yourself to get four people on the same flight in F using your Avios, during peak holiday period in an area of the world not heavily served by BA?

It is most curious that you take full and successful advantage of both the advice here and the programme itself, and yet despite having yourself disproven that the scheme is “crap” by your own redemption experience, still pan it.

It does suggest a somewhat twisted perspective, or some sort of personal anti-BA agenda. I suspect the latter.

[BeckyBoop]

VK, Lay off Binman him he is clearly a well seasoned traveller with BA and considering he only ever flies on his points has more experience and deserves rewards and better treatment by the airline.

Read

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/BA-s-Avios-find-a-flight-map-Grrr

at Binman62 – 04/10/2012 19:19 GMT

as he explains how he got the seats..

[SwissExPat]

@ PatJordan … I only use EI very occasionally now having being silver/gold back about 7/8 years ago.

On my login now, I see that I have – 4533 points, yes it is a minus !!!!

Also a colleague of mine (aprox 15 years ago) is the only person I now who had his Gold Circle card removed from him having made some complaint about the airline. They even sent a member of staff to his Office to collect the card in person.

EI is a very strange beast now and it looks like their operation will fall under Micko’s control sooner than later. If he pays me 1.30 for my shares I’ll take it !

Rgds P

[Binman62]

Not that I need to justify my comments, however…

As with others on this forum I am a long standing and loyal BA passenger. My compliant is that they are in decline and that bothers me greatly. As a long standing passenger I comment from a position of knowledge and experience.

I have secured seats, as many others have, but the fact remains that getting them is a long, tiresome, expensive and frustrating experience, especially if you want more than a single seat. This is entirely a creation of BA through their lack of investment in appropriate systems and focus on supermarket and credit collectors at the expense of flyers.

Nor is it unreasonable for me to want to fly with my family. Afterall many of the points were generated my Mrs Binman and the little bin people all of whom have silver cards in their own right. (though not for much longer!)

We are flexible and will travel on separate flights, hence bookings tend to be on routes with more than one fligth a day. We have even gone on different days and also on different routes. eg SFO LAX LAS PHX IAH and meet after a short flight. But even with a very high degree of flexibility, the lack of availability makes it hugely difficult.

There is nothing anti BA about me, my points are critical but generally well informed. I am not however equipped with rose tinted, BA branded eyeware and can see when the toilets are filthy, food awful, cabins dated, seats cramped and service poor.

When BA are charging some the highest fares in western Europe to fly business class you would think that their loyalty prgramme might just reward their passengers, but no, the system is broken.

Anyone who takes a flight on the likes of LH CX Swiss and many others will see just how behind BA now are and not just in terms of aircraft, but cabin appearance, crew service and on board experiences that BA cannot match.

[Bruce98]

” So if it’s so awful, how come you managed yourself to get four people on the same flight in F using your Avios, during peak holiday period in an area of the world not heavily served by BA?”

This is not your bulletin board, Vintage Krug and Binman is entitled to his opinion, too.

Only recently, you were complaining about being attacked and now you post this.

Grow up.

BAEC long haul is CRAP.

[VintageKrug]

I don’t believe they are in decline; there is a re-adjustment given the prevailing economic conditions affecting Western markets, and that isn’t BA specific.

Indeed, the Brandindex study shows BA improving, now ranking second in the UK, which is no mean feat:

http://www.brandindex.com/article/steady-climb-top-british-airways

There has been a bad patch during strikes and near bankruptcy, and in the real world we all recognise that such cycle take time to climb out of, particularly when economic conditions are the worst they have been for a generation.

Despite all that, there’s been plenty of positive news from BA in the past few years, particularly from the Executive Club (e.g. full miles on economy tickets, increases in TPs earned and mileage bonus for Silvers, the Gold redemption override) and with the new 787s, A380s, probably new Gatwick fleet adjustments and other upcoming oneworld and corporate changes, there’s lots to shout about.

To criticise BA for a poor FFP when you have personally managed to redeem four flights in First on the same flight using Avios during peak holiday period, no doubt with some assistance from advice set out on here (not that any thanks or appreciation was ever offered…) is frankly perverse.

[Vertrek]

Here is a true story of mine.

We (my friends and I) went to watch a football match in wembley a couple months back and an American friend of mine was talking to these group of chaps just to be social when Q-ing. She then asked, if they’ve been to America.

And all of them had the same reaction, and one suddenly shouted “no way!! no way!! America is the worst of all, Britain is the best, no other places can beat Britain! We’ve got London (and some other place)…. Why should we go to America, Britain is the best, yeaaaa! We’ll never go to America…….” followed with a million “yea! yea!” from the rest of his group.

Got what I mean…. VK?

[MartynSinclair]

I am certainly not in agreement with the BT bulletin board librarian on this matter.

I am not concerned about how many redemption flights Ive booked over the years, only the present situation of very limited availabilty, unless of course you are a gold card holder and want to pay double and still flights are leaving with spare seats.

Neither has this issue got any thing to do with how well an airline is doing or when new A380’s are being delivered.

There are too many negative comments about avios for this matter not to be given credibility.

I still do not think Avios is fit for purpose for longhaul redemptions and even with the chance of being awarded 220,000 additional avios by transfering my amex points over to avios, my feeling is still to leave as is, on the basis that diversification is better than a large avios pot and not being able to use them.

[VintageKrug]

That is your experience.

Mine is quite different.

As ever, MS you’re very focussed on the “here and now” and choose not to see the longer view. The longer view *is* important.

I suspect the issue is that you are seeking to redeem primarily to Asian destinations, where BA often only has one flight per day, whereas I generally travel to the US or Middle Eastern destinations, with multiple daily flights and destination opportunities, hence my success.

Having said that I have redeemed/upgraded to Sydney, one of the toughest redemptions to get, twice in the past two years, also once to to Bangkok and once to Beijing.

So, just like Binman’s four-people-in-First-during peak holiday periods, it *is* possible to get what you want.

It is perfectly valid to suggest that Asian destination are challenging with Avios – they are, because there’s only a handful of F&J seats being sold, and the redemption opportunities are a small proportion of that already small pot; I generally use Star on my few forays East.

But it’s not fair to pan the whole FFP based on your specific, limited, experience.

I have shared some tips on here, which have obviously been put to good use.

I don’t think it’s worth sharing others as there is a sense that others seem to know everything, or approach this matter as a predetermined impossibility, so it’s not worth educating them.

The forum will be poorer for that, but so be it.

[rcfyelee98]

I use BA extensively for work. I am based in London with Heathrow and City as my most convenient airports. I mainly travel long haul east and west. BA is the airline that ticks most of the boxes for me – the OW airlines have the greatest number of carriers that have truly flat beds on the routes I am most likely to use; BA is the airline that has most consistent flat bed roll out among all the airlines that fly on the routes I use; as an insanely frequent flyer, I don’t tend to have many problems getting the seats I want for my family.

But this doesn’t mean I am happy with BA. It is unacceptable that 1) planes are dirty – I don’t expect to enter a bedroom with the bathroom not cleaned up after the previous guest; by the same token, I don’t expect to see crumbs and detritus from the last flight on my seat; 2) the loos, seats are broken and/or held together by sticky tape – I don’t expect hotel bedrooms to provide me with a broken bed. These have nothing to do with asset refreshment cycle but more to do with proactive maintenance and/or a higher hygiene level.

Don’t get me wrong. When BA gets it right, it is fine. But boy, when they get it wrong, it really does suck. I like the Four Seasons chain because it is like McDonalds – you know what you are going to get each and every time. Hiltons, on the other hand, give me the widest possible spectrum of customer experiences. That is what BA does for me. Whereas an airline like CX is, for me, more comparable to the Four Seasons.

On the subject of seats. Yes, BA did lead with the introduction of the flat beds and, yes, the current economic climate plays havoc on most corporates. However, we could also argue that Nokia are world leaders in mobile phones (as they were not so long ago) or even RIM. But the sad reality is that Apple and Samsung have come up with better products. Product cycles can be whatever length you want them to be. But when someone else comes up with a significantly better proposition, the competitive advantage that a company has will waste away quickly if it isn’t successfully addressed.

[BeckyBoop]

Which airline offers and delivers the best FFP?

[MartynSinclair]

I am only frustrated with the current system because flights are not going out full in F and C, yet redemption bookings remain so limited.

This information is from ticket office staff who are very open about the number of tickets in any class that are available, even if you call up to 6 hours or so before the flight.

The same goes for these Gold Upgrade vouchers. Seats are not being released. So when I return to the UK with a half used voucher, BA will invalidate the voucher, in other words, they dont need to release another seat, the voucher will be binned.

I will not pay double avios to secure a redemption seat – but I understand BA have a responsibility to its shareholders to reduce the number of airmiles in circulation and implementing a “pay double” feature is something out of the Michael O’Leary pages of how to run an airline.

Yes I do tend to focus on the hear and now, because having earned the avios, i would like to use them outside of Europe and to a destination that’s useful to me within the next 3 years or so. Perhaps BA offer an incentive to avios, promise not to use the for 10 years and here’s a bonus.

[MartynSinclair]

BB – for Europe BA. For longhaul, not BA!

[BeckyBoop]

Here is a challenge for everyone for the rest of the weekend lets not mention or refer to BA….

Which airline offers and delivers the best FFP?

[Author]

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