[JohnHarper]

I’ve just read somewhere else that the launch date will be at least 2016! I hope something spurs DB on to move it forward. This really will be a game changer.

[AMcWhirter]

Good morning.

It is good news and we’ve posted details of this important development:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/db-ice-trains-approved-for-channel-tunnel

The article to which Martyn referred to above is in the March issue of Business Traveller, see “Platform: Conditions of Carriage.”

To answer John’s question … well the point is that DB requires special ICE trains to operate through the Tunnel and these have not yet been built by Siemens.

Normal international ICE trains (which DB operates between Germany, Switzerland, France and the Benelux countries) are not certified for Tunnel use.

The DB ICE train which was displayed at St Pancras in 2010 did not come to London under its own power.

It was actually hauled all the way from Calais to St Pancras by a special Eurotunnel diesel loco.

We posted a news piece last December about DB’s plans and the problems it faces for Tunnel operation. It will shed some light on the points you have raised:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/deutsche-bahn-committed-to-international-london

We have written a further update on international train services from London which will appear in Platform next month.

Alex McWhirter

[MartynSinclair]

When you say the ICE trains are not certified for the tunnel – exactly what do the authorising authority look for in terms of build quality.

I presume that the ICE trains currently do go through the mountain tunnels and whilst not underneath water, is still below ground and for considerable distances.

Has the certification process actually started or is this another example of European Transport infrastructure not communicating?? Will brand new trains be required or can the existing ICE be modified, if indeed anything needs to be done to them…??

1 user thanked author for this post.

Stuart

[AMcWhirter]

Hello Martyn

In answer to the points you have raised:

1. The ICE trains have now been certified for the Tunnel. The reason I provided the link to our December 17 news story was to show what DB’s plans were for its trains and the problems it had faced in getting the trainsets approved.

2. There are five different versions of the ICE train. The ICE train first appeared in 1991 and the earliest versions (ICE1 and ICE2) are permitted to operate between Germany, Austria and Switzerland. The later version, ICE3, can operate between Germany, France, Holland and Belgium.

3. Although the ICEs serve Switzerland they do not run through the Alpine tunnels. They serve Basle and Zurich. I believe they don’t run any further into Switzerland than Interlaken.

3. An updated version of ICE3 is being built for Tunnel use. I believe it will also have the flexibility to operate over more networks than do existing ICE trainsets.

4. The main requirements for passenger trains to use the Tunnel (besides the power supply and signalling systems) are safety and evacuation procedures. The new batch of ICE trains must incorporate all these features.

See ‘Platform’ in our forthcoming July/August issue for details of Channel Tunnel train operation.

[Henkel.Trocken]

I’m another one who will start using the train more once DB get their services in place. I wonder if, at the same time they will bid to run some of the major UK services. That should shake up the current operations nicely. I know DB regio have some services to Marylebone and they also run the Tyne & Wear Metro system but seeing DB on one of the main line services perhaps using the ICE would be excellent. Even the first generation of ICE train leaves any rolling stock operated here standing.

[AnthonyDunn]

If my memory serves me after all this time, from my involvement on the inter-governmental Safety Commission (courtesy of being in the MoD), principal issues are the fire isolation/smoke containment and the means of passenger egress in the event of a fire underground in the Chunnel.

Like others, I much look forward to an entirely new era in train travel with more direct services from London to a host of continental European destinations.

@ Henkel.Trocken – 15/06/2013 12:43 GMT

I may be wrong but I think that there might be an issue with the train gauge (i.e “size”) of the ICE train. Most continental railways use a larger gauge translating to wider/taller carriage sets. Hence any number of issues around moving larger sea containers to/from Felixstowe and the new London Gateway on the existing UK rail network. That is very possibly why running an ICE over non-HS UK rails may be a pleasant idea but technically impossible.

[AMcWhirter]

Hello Henkel

DB is more involved in UK rail then you might think.

DB owns Arriva Trains which in turn operates:

Arriva Wales
Chiltern Trains
Cross Country Trains
Grand Central (an ‘open access’ operator)

Arriva also has a majority stake in Alliance Rail Holdings. This firm wants to offer rival services between London and the North.

The ICE trains can operate over HS1 (the high-speed line linking London with the Tunnel) because it’s a brand new line and was built for European high-speed trains.

But as AnthonyDunn notes there may be problems operating the ICE trainsets beyond the capital because of the UK’s restricted loading guage. Much will depend on the route.

The Eurostar trainsets which used to run over the ‘classic lines’ linking London Waterloo with Folkestone (in the days before St Pancras opened) were specially built for the UK loading guage.

That is why a small fleet of regional Eurostars was built to operate international trains from Northern cities (Edinburgh and Manchester, for example) right through the Tunnel to Brussels and Paris.

Details of what Eurostar planned and what actually happened can be found within our historical Snapshot page appearing in our current (June) issue.

[transtraxman]

If and when HS2 is up and running, to Birmingham at least, the question will be who runs the services along the line.

If present government policy is to be followed the logical operator would be the dominant one at the London terminus. Since the terminus will be Euston then this is Virgin Trains (at the moment). Thus it can be foreseen that the operator from Euston will be Virgin Trains.

However, Virgin Trains operates the inter-city services from Euston to Northwest England and Glasgow so can be expected to benefit hugely, as compared to its competitors, from continuing to run those services using the HS2 for that part of the service south of Birmingham.

This might prove too much for the government which might well likely prefer more direct competition. In that case as Chiltern would be a loser on its services to Birmingham from Marylebone. There would be a strong case for Chiltern(which is DB) to run the trains to Birmingham only.

If stage 2 of the plans for HS2 are accepted then one could well see East Coast running services up HS2 to York and onwards to Newcastle and Edinburgh. The services to Leeds(only) would then be run by East Midlands Trains.

Add in Grand Central to Sunderland and even possibly Scot Rail services then we would end up with a real pot-pourri.Thus we would have lots of different companies operating semi-competitively. Is it too much to imagine?

[MartynSinclair]

I got really excited reading the BT article about the agreement between Eurostar and DB for single fares between 6 German cities (FRA included) and London.. from 1st February

Perfect for me as I have “non avios availability day” from FRA on the 11 Feb.

Nice departure at 15.10, takes 6 hours (acceptable) – yet there are no prices available……

When will we be able to book?

[LuganoPirate]

This is great news. I guess 6 hours is just about acceptable city centre to city centre though I see the fastest connection is just over 3 hours so with good timing this could be improved on.

The single fare 2nd class was shown at €116 though as Eurostar offer free travel to any Belgian destination this could also be improved on I think.

[MartynSinclair]

LP – was that Euros 116 FRA-LON?

If so that pretty good city centre to city centre….. Would take it..

[rjhcambs]

Martyn

Check Seat61.com website. Their January news blog has a 10% discount code on Eurostar booking through Belgian Railway website; also talks about London- frankfurt for £79 and also the Dbahn “london spezials” which from memory cost £49 if you can get them for your delected trains.

[LuganoPirate]

No Martyn, that was only Brussels – Frankfurt.

[MartynSinclair]

Looked at the DB, Eurostar and seat 61 site in the hope that I could book. Alas no, unless I approached it wrong.

It seems the prices and times are published, but a phone call is still needed to book. ca. £70 is a good price..

[LuganoPirate]

Martyn, I’m sure you can book and pay online for a ticket with

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml

There is even a UK number you can call for booking.

You can either print the ticket or have it sent to your mobile as an MMS. I’ve done this many times though my journey originated in Switzerland. However, I’ve also booked internal journeys such as Frankfurt – Cologne and Hamburg – Dusseldorf.

If it’s the cross border part giving problems, I’m certain a Eurostar ticket is valid to any point in Belgium. You’d then just need a German ticket from the frontier to your destination and that is definitely bookable online even using a foreign credit card.

The only hassle is you need to book two tickets, one with Eurostar and the other with DB.

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