Garuda to London in OctoberBack to Forum
Anonymous25 Jan 2013
A bird told me, GA will start London route, 4 or 5 times per week in October 2013 and increase Amsterdam to daily from June. The timing will be set to allow direct connection to Australia and maybe New Zealand.
It is said that all London flight will be direct with B777-300ER with the planned 3 class configuration (First, Business and Economy). The airport is yet to be announced, but my guess would be LHR T4.
BT, any info? =)25 Jan 2013
This will be an intersting one Vertrek. 777-300 non stop is lots of aircraft and seats on a route which is not currently being served directly at all.
On another thread there is a rumour mentioned that BA will add Jakarta “soon” (well with BA soon is meaningless) as a tag to SIN.
We shall see.
I am not sure thee is quite enough demand for a 773 on its own without a stop, but we shall see. And as you say T4 most likely being future Skyteam members. Maybe a stop on the way to at least start the route.25 Jan 2013
Apparently there were about 40k travellers traveled between London and Jakarta in 2012 (I don’t know if they considered the Olympic, as it might be a different story without it) and it seems like they are planning to target the Australia and New Zealand market on top of it, for both flights to London and Amsterdam. Perhaps a codeshare with DL/VS is on the agenda for east-coast USA.
I wonder what would happen to the current CGK-AUH-AMS route after the direct connection. =)25 Jan 2013
Other factors are Skyteam membership – Garuda is joining, and Virgin must be more than likely. Therefore if Garuda does do this route, then they can codeshare with VS and get feed from the UK end. Also, if Etihad join Sky team, then Abu Dhabi could provide the “stop”. Or how about LHR-AMS-CGK?
There have been some very positive postings on this site about the inflight service and products, so will be interesting to see how this evolves and if BA entering the route would make any difference to Garuda strategy.
I think BA could do a LHR-CGK-Perth 787 routing, which would capture leisure & business traffic, utilizing the range but not oversized capacity of this new aircraft, when it eventually starts regular and reliable flying. I doubt they would though as I do not think they are “overburdoned” with imagination25 Jan 2013
Interestingly this very same topic was discussed on this Forum in April of last year:
The London route has also been rumoured on several occasions in the past:
Flight Global July 2010
Jakarta Globe Sep 2012
TTG Asia Nov 2012
So far nothing has happened.25 Jan 2013
I don’t know if they will have the freedom to do CGK-AMS-LHR.
Fromt he article it seems like they are keen to make it non-stop, perhaps they want to join the kangaroo route, and it won’t be convenient to offer 2 stops service as they will lost the battle to QF-EK, SQ, BA and EY-VA.
BA and GA competing wouldn’t be a problem to each other as they will be the only 2 carriers to serve Indonesia direct from EU, unless AF/KLM also take up the route.
But if VS do join SkyTeam, GA might win more businesses than BA for the route, as not only VS can feed them, GA will also be able offer onward connection to Indonesia and Australia+NZ and have a strong backup by SkyTeam partners to key EU cities of AMS, CDG, FCO, etc from LHR. BA will be able to do so, but only for CGK-EU/USA route, not the other way round.
I am really looking forward to VS announcement to SkyTeam and perhaps, Etihad.
I think, they are waiting for their B777ER as the delivery has been pushed to June 2013 in stead of 2012. and in the link I posted, it seems like they are more certain with October being the month, in stead of just stating their intentions. But, only time will tell.25 Jan 2013
KLM already fly to Singapore, then on to Bali Denpasar, with either a 772 or 773 that run on alternate days.
It is very useful to pick up KLM from SIN, and one way fares in Business, for about £150 or £75 Y class.
Few times have taken it, was very full in my experience. Clever routing by KLM!25 Jan 2013
It is true Markus, KLM also fly to Jakarta via KUL.
And as of now, KLM is the only EU carrier serving Indonesia as LH withdraw CGK last October.
Perhaps one day soon there will be a non-stop flight between EU and Indonesia, either from BA, GA or AF-KLM.
Edited25 Jan 2013
When i lived in Australia 90’s. Garuda used to be known as “the Bus service to Europe”, taking around 6 stops to get there!
Last flight i made with them from Jakarta to Bali in a heavy storm, the Very old 747 landed too far down the runway, all wheels at the same time, flat!. Most of the lockers opened, we all thought something had exploded, as it was pitch black outside, Brakes and reverse thrusts went into max mode, and we ended up about 200 meters from the sea at the end of the runway sidewards!
The plane had turned and pushed into the grass so as to not overshoot.
This all seemed to be quite normal on board!
We still taxied to the gate!
I prefer KLM flying me there these days!
The Jakarta and Bali onwards services are real handy though, and with KUL / SIN, it gives them better revenue for cargo, and tourists and business seaters, to have access to both cities. Excellent!27 Jan 2013
Etihad signed a codeshare agreement with Garuda, which started on 28th October last year. from their press office:
“The agreement, which comes into effect on October 28, 2012, is the airline’s 42nd codeshare.
In the first phase of the partnership, Etihad Airways will place its ‘EY’ code on Garuda Indonesia’s services between Jakarta and Denpasar (Bali), and Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur. Subject to regulatory approval, Garuda Indonesia will place its ‘GA’ code on Etihad Airways flights from Jakarta to up to 31 destinations in the GCC, Levant, Africa, Europe and North America”.
I personally don’t think they will go for a direct service but you never know..
I still don’t think getting into bed with ST is part of Etihad’s long term strategy, or any other alliance for that matter. Another quote from their CEO, James Hogan;
James Hogan, Etihad Airways President and Chief Executive Officer, said the codeshare with Garuda Indonesia was a key plank of the airline’s network development strategy.
“The partnership with Garuda Indonesia will contribute to Etihad Airways achieving its goal of expanding its network and brand presence in South East Asia.
Take out of that what you will.27 Jan 2013
Garuda have been very focused on turning themselves around as an airline and raising its reputation.
The Garuda of the 80s/90s is long gone. Since launching on the Jakarta stock exchange in 2010 they have been able to raise the capital to place a very large new aircraft order and relaunch and revamp the airline with a focus on service
Strategically their intention was to re enter Europe starting with Amsterdam, followed by London, Frankfurt, Paris and potentially Zurich and Milan. There is also the intention of launching Los Angeles
They have been very cautious with their Europe plans. The economic downturn in Europe and rising fuel costs has seen that plan slow, with Amsterdam dropping to 5 x per week last year but due to return to daily later this year. London has always been on the cards with the intention of doing it nonstop.
They have remained very focused on developing their mid haul and regional markets of Australia, South East Asia, South Korea, Japan and China, and now serve these countries from both their Jakarta and Bali hubs, capturing the corporate and leisure markets
Having such a large population, very strong and fast growing economy and middle class the potential for growth from Indonesia puts them in a very strong position as an airline. They also have a relatively low cost base allowing them to be very price competitive
Being part of Skyteam and now forming an alliance with Etihad will allow them to offer a number of options for Europe complimenting whatever direct services they put in place.
They also want to capitalise on the Australia/NZ to UK/Europe market.
As mentioned the airline have a very strong product offering, new aircraft full flat beds on all A330 aircraft, full service, extensive on demand entertainment and very service orientated, as well as offering onboard immigration and visa processing for arrival into Jakarta and Denpasar
They are definitely an airline heading in the right direction, and hopefully we will see more flights by them into Europe in the next year27 Jan 2013
Can fully understand Garuda wanting to serve London but not sure if they have a First product. They have a very solid J product and two class configuration on their long haul fleet.
BA to Jakarta is a long shot and even longer from SIN. Yields SIN CGK are poor and LH CX and others have all been and gone from that route in recent years. SIN DPS is possible but even here 5th freedom yields are not good with KLM offering £250 return in business year round. QR also has decent fares.
GCK is served by oneworld via HKG at present and whilst a longer route than via SIN has the added advantage of CX . A business return on that route will also generate 560 tier points from LHR and a BAEC silver card if using the EU to start.
CGK on BA as an extension to BKK may work but I would have thought BKK DPS more profitable as would mix business and premium leisure traffic, but they may not get the 5th freedom rights.
Vietnam, Cambodia and of course now Burma, must be in line for better services from the UK.28 Jan 2013
Hi Binman. Interesting take on this, especially what you think might be more lucrative for BA? BKK must be a bit tougher these days for BA with the Oz tag gone and no shortage of competition, but as you indicate this provides opportunities to start routes up in the area, potentially before they become self sufficient – for example Vietnam & even Cambodia, and do think your suggestion for DPS via BKK would work.
Jakarta I think is a must for BA and would work, but I am sceptical if GA doing a 773 is not a bit too much capacity. The tag on from SIN would be fine even if there is no local traffic, but think there must be slightly better alternatives, like BKK or KL, but I think BA is not so keen on KL with MH joing Oneworld.
I think BA could do KL with 777, with tags to CGK & DPS, and BKK providing the main stop for Indochina.
There was talk last year of BA going to Phuket?
Also Yangon (Myanmar) could stop in India?28 Jan 2013
Support for Garuda from Indonesians is strong, as is the route from Amsterdam with KLM to both Jakarta and Bali. Often these flights are completely full, leaving Schiphol, with many Indonesians obviously happy to rely on KLM, from NL’s at least
On my travels on these routes, including SIN-DPS, Business class was full, and talking to a fellow passenger, well used from the KUL, and SIN cities by those choosing business class also. They have a low fare for the approx 2 hr flight, but operate at high capacity. They also carry much cargo.
I do not think a First Class product is needed from London, the J class would offer more profit for Garuda. It would offer another gateway to Australia from London, and add to the already blossoming SkyTeam Alliance, with Virgin’s Group of Airlines set to follow in, as well as Etihad. Before that, in the coming months, both will have their FFP’s alligned anyhow.
First Class is rather an old concept now, as recognised by many Airlines across the world. What used to be in First, is now in Business class.
What matters most these days, is having a flat bed concept seat, and a cabin with more appealing features, that stands out from the crowd. It would still be quite a hop, non-stop, much like the AUH-Sydney that can be around 15 hrs?28 Jan 2013