[Hktbound]

Hi
Thanks for all your replies and advice.
I agree we got home so we have no case to answer as we lost nothing.
I agree that the easiest way in the future is to avoid one world or indeed buy a through ticket which as has been suggested is often cheaper from over here.
Insurance was an interesting avenue I did not consider in the heat of the moment but yes, I think could be protection against missed connections from a delayed flight but I would be nervous relying on it.

I think my point was that there was a change in policy AFTER I booked the flights and the Executive Club agent told me that as long as I booked a new flight after 90 minutes after the scheduled arrival they would protect the connection. I would not do it today after the policy change but my contract was made beforehand and I feel I was treated very poorly.
However, I agree despite stress and a horrible hour at check in we did not lose anything and we made it home for Christmas which is the main thing. I think the duty manager was terrified of helping and had to stick to the ‘new’ rule book. She was very sympathetic but ther hands were tied.
Again, thanks so much for your advice and commment. I will let you know what BA reply.

[FDOS_UK]

I agree that you were treated badly, in that you made an agreement under one policy and then had an inferior policy (from your perspective) imposed on you.

As I’m not a lawyer, I couldn’t comment on whether this was lawful (IanfromHKG probably would, as he is a commercial lawyer), but it seems appalling customer service.

BA = Best Avoided, at the moment.

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=783003]I think my point was that there was a change in policy AFTER I booked the flights and the Executive Club agent told me that as long as I booked a new flight after 90 minutes after the scheduled arrival they would protect the connection. I would not do it today after the policy change but my contract was made beforehand and I feel I was treated very poorly.
[/quote]

The change of policy was that you were unable to check bags to your final destination. Very irritating I know but AFAIK it has never been BA policy to protect connections on separate tickets (I believe AA was the only OneWorld airline to do that). If you look on FT forum you will see there are warnings about that going back years.

As for the bags, it is all irrelevant anyway, even if checked through the bags would never have made it as by your own admission you were boarding the GIB flight when your original inbound arrived.

That ultimately is the risk of having two separate bookings. In the past agents had a degree of discretion, these days BA don’t give a wotsit really, you are just a source of cash.

[Hktbound]

Thanks SimonS1.
Understand your comments but was following instructions from an agent at the executive club – finally the advice given was useless and I agree, I am just a source of cash and not a valued Club World Traveller.

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=783015]Thanks SimonS1.
Understand your comments but was following instructions from an agent at the executive club – finally the advice given was useless and I agree, I am just a source of cash and not a valued Club World Traveller.

[/quote]

Sad but true. The call centre agents will come out with any old b/s…they know if they say what you want to hear then it will get you off the line quicker.

If you know which number you called from and when you could ask for a copy of the recording of the call.

[Ahmad]

[quote quote=783017]

Hktbound wrote:

Thanks SimonS1.
Understand your comments but was following instructions from an agent at the executive club – finally the advice given was useless and I agree, I am just a source of cash and not a valued Club World Traveller.

Sad but true. The call centre agents will come out with any old b/s…they know if they say what you want to hear then it will get you off the line quicker.

If you know which number you called from and when you could ask for a copy of the recording of the call.

[/quote]

Further to my previous post, it is clear OP relied on the Executive Club agent’s representation when purchasing the tickets. Unless the terms and conditions of either ticket clearly state otherwise (and I don’t mean in the small print) OP has an actionable case. The recording with the agent would be available during discovery and it would also be possible to cross examine the agent on why this combination of tickets was suggested. The fact that the policy was expressly amended after the tickets were purchased strengthens the case against BA. Having said that, the quantum of damages would depend entirety on the particular circumstances of the case, to which I am not privy.

[FDOS_UK]

Ahmad

Sorry, I missed your post yesterday, that and your post this morning are interesting.

My knowledge of contract law is patchy and based on experience, so I’m interested how one would be able to calculate damages in this instance, where

– there appears to be no loss, as the OP made his connection
– he made his connection, because the airline agent took mitigating action (re-booked onto an earlier flight)

I could see an equitable action (injunction) or even some form of estoppel arising from the agent’s comments to prevent BA applying a unilateral change of policy post purchase – but as the flight has taken place, that seems not to be an available remedy. I could even see how the two flight contracts could have been repudiated due to the change of policy, but again before the event.

Obviously, had the OP missed the connecting flight, I could have seen how damages could have been calculated quite easily – the cost of the airfare and the reasonable cost of overnight accomodation and subsistence.

If you have time to share your logic, I’d be really interested as I find contract law interesting.

[Flightlevel]

This is a practical way for the airline to avoid looking after you on a missed connection or on delayed flights, a substantial cost for a long haul flight operated with old aircraft and more if an A380 caused an overnight delay. You can look forward to another A380 flight ‘though l’m sure living in Gibralter is a compensation.

[FDOS_UK]

Just as a general note for other interested travellers who may not be familiar with Heathrow, the agent’s advice to allow 90 minutes between connections on two separate tickets is very poor, in my opinion.

Minimum connection times at T3 on a international to international connection (through ticket) would be 60 minutes. Given the vagaries of Heathrow (holding, unavailability of stands, bussing from some stands, potential queues for security re-clearance etc), this is marginal and may not work – but the airline is responsible for sorting it out, providing replacement flights, accomodation, subsistence and possibly EC261 compo – depending on the circumstances.

To suggest 90 minutes for a non-through ticket is IMO very bad guidance, even with checked through bags. Yes, it is doable on a good day, but as the OP experienced, 2 hour delays are not uncommon and there is no onus on the airline to help on separate tickets – they can say ‘Sorry, but the risk is yours, give us £xxx for a new ticket on the next available flight, sort out your own overnight stay/meals and we’ll see you tomorrow/the next day/whenever.

My own personal risk tolerance says a minimum of 4 hours between flights, but even that is not infallible.

[GivingupBA]

Hktbound, sorry to hear about your experiences and I think you were wronged. But thanks for posting, this is an instructive thread.

Personally, for many years now I’ve avoided any kind of tight connection [except on through tickets on one airline, i.e. on one booking code]. I know not everyone can do it, but I just work in an overnight stay or two between other connections, to avoid problems and also to reduce stress. I enjoy relaxing overnight and seeing the sights.

And FDOS is right, Heathrow needs a really long time for connections, especially inter-terminal [when I think even 4 hours is minimal].

[MartynSinclair]

“Some loco routes, although that may change over time. e.g. presently, Ryanair will not sell you a through ticket on its network, you have to buy point to point and accept any risks arriving”.

For travel savvy passengers, this will be understood, but I wonder how many passengers get caught out with Ryan Air and other loco’s, where they thought they would at least be moved to later flight for no cost, if their inbound into the “hub” was late.

I think I would feel “cheated”, if I was on Ryan going from A to B and then on to C, if the A to B sector was over an hour late, causing me to buy another ticket for the next sector on the same airline.

I presume you also have to collect your bags, go landside, re check in and pass through security again…

For me this would be an absolute non starter – but there again, I will not use Ryan…

[FDOS_UK]

For travel savvy passengers, this will be understood, but I wonder how many passengers get caught out with Ryan Air and other loco’s, where they thought they would at least be moved to later flight for no cost, if their inbound into the “hub” was late.

Their conditions specifically cover this

Article 17 – Point-to-point airline

We are a ‘point-to-point’ airline. We therefore do not offer, and cannot facilitate, the transfer of passengers or their baggage to other flights, whether operated by ourselves or by other carriers.

I think I would feel “cheated”, if I was on Ryan going from A to B and then on to C, if the A to B sector was over an hour late, causing me to buy another ticket for the next sector on the same airline.

Maybe you would, but it is exactly the same situation as with any airline when travelling on separate tickets.

I presume you also have to collect your bags, go landside, re check in and pass through security again…

Yes you would – just like travelling on BA (or another company), with two separate tickets.

For me this would be an absolute non starter – but there again, I will not use Ryan…

Just out of interest, how does this situation differ from the outbound flight to connect your ex-EU flights?

[Ahmad]

[quote quote=783083]Ahmad

Sorry, I missed your post yesterday, that and your post this morning are interesting.

My knowledge of contract law is patchy and based on experience, so I’m interested how one would be able to calculate damages in this instance, where

– there appears to be no loss, as the OP made his connection
– he made his connection, because the airline agent took mitigating action (re-booked onto an earlier flight)

I could see an equitable action (injunction) or even some form of estoppel arising from the agent’s comments to prevent BA applying a unilateral change of policy post purchase – but as the flight has taken place, that seems not to be an available remedy. I could even see how the two flight contracts could have been repudiated due to the change of policy, but again before the event.

Obviously, had the OP missed the connecting flight, I could have seen how damages could have been calculated quite easily – the cost of the airfare and the reasonable cost of overnight accomodation and subsistence.

If you have time to share your logic, I’d be really interested as I find contract law interesting.

[/quote]
Sorry for the late reply, been rather busy. Just a quick answer to your question on damages. There are several categories of damages for breach of contract. These are essentially: compensatory, liquidated, punitive or exemplary and nominal. Courts also order restitution in certain instances where contractual and tortious claims overlap. Even in the first category, i.e. compensatory damages, there are differences, namely expected damages and consequential damages. The latter are awarded provided there is a direct causal nexus and the damage is reasonably foreseeable. It all depends on the particular facts of the case. As I said, I am not privy to the facts and have no opinion on what damages may be payable.

You might be thinking in terms of expected damages and since the OP and baggage made it to GIB with a little help from BA staff at MIA and the contracts were performed more or less as contemplated, you feel no damages are payable. What about all the other heads I have listed? Why don’t you have a quick look at details of these other types of damages and if you still feel I need to elaborate, please feel free to query.

[MrMichael]

Norwegian inter European does sell connecting flights on one ticket. I was looking for flights to Gran Canaria earlier this year and one of the Norwegian offers was direct LGW-LPA out, coming back I was surprised to note it was LPA-CPH-LGW with as I recall around 90 mins connecting time at CPH. Although Norwegian is a LoCo, I figure if the CPH-LGW was missed due to the LPA-CPH being late they would have been responsible fully for me and my not cheap to look after entourage.

[TominScotland]

MrMichael, IMHO Norwegian are probably at the premium end of the LCC market, verging on a hybrid (if there is such a thing). Interestingly, they say they will assist passengers who miss ‘unofficial connections’ with other airlines provided they have allowed at least 120 minutes between flights (http://www.norwegian.com/uk/booking/booking-information/connecting-flights/)

Scoot also offer connections via SIN with their Scoot-Thru (http://www.flyscoot.com/en/fly-scoot/at-the-airport/scoot-thru)and AirAsia with Fly-Thru (http://www.airasia.com/th/en/our-connections/connecting-flights.page) via KUL and BKK.

I suspect (but have not verified) that these connections with Scoot and AirAsia are chargeable as extras so, in a sense, you are buying convenience and insurance.

[Author]

Posts