[capetonianm]

Oh seasonedtraveller the flower is back in the First Class loos now.

I shall definitely be travelling BA F in future. A flower in the loo, it’s all I ever wanted. Wonderful.

[Stowage222]

Hang on there, I’ve seen flowers in the Club loos these last 2 trips too – what on Earth is going on? Does the Cruzifier know about this?

[Henryp1]

Other airlines have business on the upper deck and first on the lower deck e.g. SQ, AF, QF, OZ, and maybe others too, this doesn’t necessarily dilute the experience. The smaller cabin and privacy which is quieter from the business cabins is a major factor for me. The catering and alcohol availability doesn’t really factor in flight choices, as the aim is to get from A to B and have the opportunity to dine well either at home or destinations.

[thebigseats]

If BA scrap First I will not fly them at all, especially whilst the current CW exists! We mainly (though not exclusively) use BA Amex 2-4-1 vouchers (like many here) but ONLY FOR FIRST.

CW is a dated, utilitarian product, especially when compared to many other products that we are all well aware of. For us, First IS a big step up – in many ways, not just in the air. We are fortunate that “our” routes are featuring B787-9, so we sample the best BA First that they have to offer (cough!!). Not had a bad F flight on BA yet. Not that we should have had, of course.

We also fly EY First (Apartments mainly) &, sometimes, SQ First. Both a big step up from BA in most respects but the again my current Porsche is a big step up from my previous Mercedes. Both good but one is superior. Thats life.

Will BA ditch F eventually? No. Not on certain routes – JFK/LAX/HKG/SIN etc. Other routes without First? Maybe.

[rferguson]

thebigseats – your post highlights what I was getting at earlier. You, like myself, do fly BA First – but only when using the AMEX 2-4-1 voucher. Great for us but hardly high yielding for BA. And this is the problem BA has with F – the product just is not good enough for people to spend big money on it and most corporate accounts these days do not allow their employees to fly F (with some exceptions). Most of the bums sat in F seats are using AVIOS, upgrade promotions, invols etc.

First won’t disappear overnight. With the current bygone era J class there is still a decent enough gap between F and J to warrant it’s existence. But when a new J seat DOES come (it’s on its way and yes so is christmas) coupled with the £100M+ being spent on J class catering and bedding it will narrow the gap to a point where it’s unlikely F will be feasible.

And totally agree, some routes do still turn a profit on F class – JFK, LAX and a few others. I can never see BA getting rid of F altogether though I can see it reducing a LOT. Saying that, I never thought i’d see the day BA would charge for a cup of tea either.

[thebigseats]

rferguson – just to be clear, I said “..We mainly (though not exclusively) use BA Amex 2-4-1 vouchers..”
FYI – I have a paid rtn in BA F coming up in a few weeks (yes, paid with money!) as it represented excellent value – just a few hundred more than J & the timings were perfect for my needs. But on the whole I agree. I pay for QR J but wouldn’t pay much of a premium for their F (its only on a few routes anyway) because their J is excellent. The reverse of BA! Just wait for the new QR “Q Suite” – looks unbeatable!
I pay for all of my tix out of my own pocket, so I am particularly discerning, in particular looking at value/quality/convenience, & mileage earning.

[LuganoPirate]

I really must do my BA/EK/LX/LH First comparison. It’s started but only just!

I enjoy First class not just for the food (which I hardly eat) and extra space but for the attention I receive, the better cheeses served when I want and the choice of ports and desert wines which I love.

I also enjoy being escorted to the plane avoiding all queues, the lounges, being driven to the plane at FRA and (sort of) ZRH. I’m treated like a VIP and as that doesn’t happen very often elsewhere in my life, truth be told, I enjoy it!

Sadly, BA disappoints in much of the above but still if I have to fly them I’ll still choose F.

Yes, it costs more, but I’m happy to pay the extra. I’ve been very philanthropic in my life so deserve to treat myself and besides, there’s no point in being the richest man in the graveyard, so I may as well enjoy it whilst I’m above the ground (literally) rather than below it.

[thecartoonman]

@ LuganoPirate

‘Yes, it costs more, but I’m happy to pay the extra. I’ve been very philanthropic in my life so deserve to treat myself and besides, there’s no point in being the richest man in the graveyard, so I may as well enjoy it whilst I’m above the ground (literally) rather than below it.’

Brilliant 🙂

[goldaviator]

I fly BA First quite regularly for leisure. I sometimes use my Amex 2-4-1 voucher for this, mostly to JNB. I often use airmiles to Boston where there is normally good availability in First to travel on my own. I have a number of times, when booking far in advance, found First fares which were cheaper than Club World, strangely, mostly to CPT! And, quite often when booking on sales and far in advance, the cost of a First ticket is only a few hundred £’s more expensive than Club World which seems reasonable for a better hard product than Club and much better service, food and wines. Its not the best First around by a long shot but at the price I get my tickets, it makes sense to pay for it. Club World is disappointing as a business product whereas the First product is reasonably good for the price that I’m paying. If BA removed their First product, I would change my airline and loyalty program.

[Nogbad01]

even if most people who are in First are there because they are on 2-4-1 rewards etc, they have still paid for their tickets by the tens of thousands of pounds they have spent on BA Amex cards.
If the incentive of a nice trip or two in First was removed and Club was the only option, I think a few of us might change our spending habits 🙂

[esselle]

This week I spent 90 minutes having a 1;1 interview with a guy from an agency working for BA, primarily to get perceptions of future direction, but also to review the recent past of the company, tracing the timeline from King/Matthews to the present day and trying to establish where and when they lost their direction.

He was a serious researcher, not a lightweight analyst.

The nature of our discussion suggests the seniors in BA are fully aware of the dilemma; a history and reputation which have been slowly trashed over a number of years of cuts etc., and the things they could now be doing/planning which might redress the balance between this clear decline in quality and the need to make a suitable return.

It certainly felt as though the realisation that they were reaching a tipping point had hit home, but also highlighted the fact that they had little clear idea of what needed to be done.

[MartynSinclair]

Nognad01- the 2-4-1 is not a First class specific award. It can I believe be used in any class of travel…

[Flightlevel]

Good that F is worthwhile and the seat is better in a bed than J class, though I personally find it boring save for the food and when possible take the double J class seats to use both screens, tables, etc. and get drinks or whatever from both aisles as crew pass!
The management must know that little things mean a lot to customers and giving staff responsibility to improve a situation adminastratively or personally once a ticket is sold makes a great difference even Ryanair has discovered.
New J class seats in A350s may improve business too.
The nature of the operation and the competition, limits many factors however a survey/audit of routine procedures can find numerous improvements for the customers benefit?

[EruditeSheep]

Like many others, I predict F class will be gradually phased out over time.

Continental was amongst the first to offer a “Business-First” product many years ago, which even included chauffeur service to/from the airport. Similarly Virgin.

Over the years, I have experienced many different levels of service, including a one-off taste of the “VIP pod” that the RAF sometimes used on its VC10 service between BZN and IAD, normally reserved for Government Ministers.

I agree that there will always be some demand for F class from various VIPs, celebrities etc, but I’m sure that the majority of flyers in the business community would welcome additional J class seating, especially if that could be accompanied by a reduction in the fare.

I have always found BA’s F class somewhat underwhelming – indeed in my most recent taste of the service, the seat area in the A380 hadn’t even been cleaned properly (used ear plugs left in plain sight) and some courses of the “tasting menu” were almost inedible. A long way short of other airlines offerings in J class – notably CX, SQ, QR, LH.

In the US, the F class seating on AA’s transcontinental A321 service is exemplary, but in many ways the J class product (and service) is almost just as good.

If the evolution of BA’s J class seating design follows that of other long-haul airlines, I can certainly see the demise of F class, with 3-class (CW, PE, WT) aircraft becoming more common-place.

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